Would Stuart Broad make India's strongest test XI?

[OverratedSanity]

I am aware

 

[Furball]

Sure, but you're assuming I'm ignoring the fact that Harris, Shoaib etc. were often injured. I'm not. I consider them better even after considering that baggage.

Harris was legitimately rubbish for a good portion of his career. It's one of the things that makes me love him so much.

 

[Black_Warrior]

I mean I'd argue that if we take someone like Imran Khan, at his prime he was better than someone like Garry Sobers. But since he couldn't replicate that level of performance across both batting and bowling throughout his career, we usually see him as worse than Sobers.

Likewise with Bond. You can't just take the instances when he was fit and bowled superbly, and ignore the fact that he could only play in like 30% of matches.

I'd take Stuart Broad over Bond in a team every time, knowing that Bond was so rarely available. I'd forgo his superior performance for someone who could actually bowl in most matches at a high level.

The thing with bowlers like Bond, Harris, Akhtar, Asif, is that with them, the concept of great career vs great ability manifests itself to it's fullest. This is why I don't really bring up these kinds of players in comparison discussions because it's very difficult to assess and argue, plus people don't often differentiate between career vs ability because for most players, the gulf isn't all that.

These bowlers in particular don't have a great career or body of performances to show for a variety of reasons, other than their ability and skillset. So comparing them with bowlers who have the body of work to show, and whose careers have progressed in a steady line along with their skills is futile.

There is no doubt Broad has the better career. And if we are judging by careers, by all means Broad trumps all of them. It's not even a discussion.


Now what's interesting in this topic is that it is essentially an All Time XI topic. By it's very definition, its a hypothetical situation and we don't actually expect Broad and Kapil and Kumble to play in the same team. So I wouldn't really consider the non cricketing factors of Asif or the injury factors of Shoaib, Harris and Bond for the purposes of All Time XI discussions.

 

[MrPrez]

Yeah, it is a problem with hypotheticals. I think most would take Bond over Broad if both were fit for any particular match, so I guess that answers that. But if I was choosing, say, between the two to qualify as a South African and be available to our Test team for the next 10 years, I'd take Broad because I know I'd get more value out of him overall.

That said, I think i we're asking about whether Broad would make NZ's strongest XI, one should look at the former, not the latter.

Basically, you're right :P

 

[Furball]

384 Test wickets in. Anyone changed their mind over the last 6 years?

 

[srbhkshk]

India's ATG XI -

Gavaskar
Sehwag
Dravid
Tendulkar
Laxman (Kohli / Hazare ?)
Dhoni (Engineer ?)
Kapil
Ashwin
Kumble
Zaheer
Srinath (Amar / Nisaar / Bedi / Gupte ?)

Broad does not make it, but he can replace the 5th bowler and it would make barely any difference to the team.

 

[MW1304]

Good joke.

 

[91Jmay]

I mean Srinath was a good player but that's a rather large claim tbh

 

[Furball]

Zaheer getting in ahead of Broad is also a joke.

 

[srbhkshk]

Good joke.

Sure, Broad plays half his career in England and averages 29, Srinath plays half of his in India and averages 30. Maybe including Broad does weaken the side a bit.

 

[Furball]

That'll be why virtually every great subcontinental fast bowler averages worse away from home.

 

[ImpatientLime]

wouldn't pick him if india were playing at home tbh

 

[91Jmay]

I love how Srinath apparently averages 30 (30.49) and Broad averages 29 (28.47 ). Some Trumpian style maths there.

 

[honestbharani]

Broad might make our AT side as the 3rd seamer ahead of Srinath/Zak but I would still pick them over Broad, considering how much workload they had to carry with virtually no support. You guys may hate it but averages alone dont make someone a better bowler.

 

[Burgey]

India's ATG XI -

Gavaskar
Sehwag
Dravid
Tendulkar
Laxman (Kohli / Hazare ?)
Dhoni (Engineer ?)
Kapil
Ashwin
Kumble
Zaheer
Srinath (Amar / Nisaar / Bedi / Gupte ?)

Broad does not make it, but he can replace the 5th bowler and it would make barely any difference to the team.

Christ, imagine that attack bowling to other ATG line ups.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Broad pretty obviously gets in an Indian AT XI on merit but he's a ****ing **** and I don't like him so I wouldn't pick him.

 

[Red]

Christ, imagine that attack bowling to other ATG line ups.

Exactly. And look, I like Javagal as a cricketer and person, but he was absolutely woeful against the stronger teams of his time. Would be completely out of his depth and slaughtered in an ATG world.

Kapil is really the only Indian pacer worth his salt at all. Might as well pick him with 3 or 4 spinners in an Indian ATG team imo and hope for the best.

 

[Howe_zat]

Think it is a futile argument as to which one of Ishant, Broad or Sreesanth is best. AFAIC, Broad isn't anywhere near the top 3 bowlers in England. One hoped that his career would tee off after the Oval in 2009, which was the only time in his career when he actually justified a place in the side, but the fact of the matter is that he simply lacks the skills to take wickets on a regular basis. Seems to me to be more of a partnership breaker than a person who can run through a side. I know he has had his days, but as a bowler alone there is absolutely no logic as to why we have a guy who averages 36 after 36 tests with the kind of bowling options that we have going around.

Onions a better bowler by a country mile IMO especially when we play in England.

Facts.

You'd have to be a bit weird to have not changed your opinion on Broad over the last six years, but there was never reason to do a complete 180.

 

[srbhkshk]

That'll be why virtually every great subcontinental fast bowler averages worse away from home.

Eh, that's because they are far more used to playing at home. Doesn't mean that it's equally hard to prize away wickets for pacers in SC and England.

Anyway it does look like the majority (everyone except me ) thinks that Broad > Zaheer or Srinath, so whatever.

 

[Howe_zat]

Even if Broad's bowling average wasn't better than those two the fact that he's taken so many wickets is a big deal. Zaheer not being fit enough to bowl for more than a couple of years at his peak isn't just random, it's his primary fault as a cricketer.

Taking nearly 400 tests wickets is a huge accomplishment, even if a sizeable portion of that hadn't been as a world class bowler. That's why people have posted things like this

the day stuart broad picks up his 400th wicket in test cricket i will wear lipstick and thong and offer pleasure for free to every gay guy in town.

Which is the thread bump I'm really looking forward to.