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*** Official*** South Africa in England 2017

Howe_zat

Howe_zat

Audio File
Howe_zat said:
Test series predictions

Score: 2-1 to England. England to win at Trent Bridge and Old Trafford but lose at the Oval.
Most runs: Alastair Cook
Most wickets: Vernon Philander
Surprise performance: TRJ to get a game and one good score with the bat
Disappointment: Quinton de Kock will score runs at the Oval but struggle elsewhere
Most infractions: Furball
AOP (Any other predictions): There will be a controversial dismissal that is only controversial according to a paper of the dismissed batsman's country
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Scoreline smack on so far, probably need a bit of rain in Manchester to keep it that way
Cook unlikely to match Root for runs but isn't out of reach
Vern has done well but his wickets tally has been hindered by pestilence
I think Toby did better than expected
De Kock might turn out right with another poor test, has been okay but two fifties and a high score of 68 would be poor returns for a man of his calibre across 4 tests. Wrong about the Oval
I'll assume I'm right about infractions
Last one must have happened at some point. We can count any Dawson dismissal as controversial seeing as him playing was pretty controversial
 
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J

JRC67

U19 12th Man
honestbharani said:
That is very interesting. Can you gimme some examples? I suppose that left arm bowler who opens and pinch hits in T20s is one of them?
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D'Olivera at Worcestershire, Borthwick normally bowled his full quota but batted as low as 7 at Durham, Dawson has batted low in T20/ODI but bowled his quota but normally opens in First Class cricket.
 
superkingdave

superkingdave

Hall of Fame Member
I'm at OT on saturday so fully expect it to be washed out...weather forecast looked ok earlier in the week but now looks a bit dodgy. Supposed to rain overnight but be dry all day tomorrow although supposedly the outfield is already pretty sodden. Whether we get a result in the test is going to depend on how quickly they can get going after inclement weather as it looks like at least 3 of the days will be pretty affected.
 
Prince EWS

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
honestbharani said:
That is very interesting. Can you gimme some examples? I suppose that left arm bowler who opens and pinch hits in T20s is one of them?
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I think the term 'specialist' in his post kind of exaggerates matters a bit, but there are certainly a bunch of allrounders who are primarily used as batsmen in one format and primarily bowlers in another. Borthwick as mentioned above has been a really good example of this - in FC cricket he bats three and bowls a bit, but when he's selected in T20 cricket he usually bats wayyy down the list and bowls his full quota. Liam Dawson - perhaps ironically - was decent example of this for a while, batting high and used sparingly with the ball in FC cricket, but being selected mainly on the strength of his bowling in T20 cricket, although he's obviously started to take his bowling more seriously in FC cicket too of late. At one point Keaton Jennings was batting three in FC cricket for Durham and barely bowling at all, while at the same time batting eight in the one day comp and bowling close to a full quota (again, his role has changed over time though). Ashar Zaidi of Essex started as a bat and still bats 6 only and bowls occassionally in T20, but has found himself down at #8 and bowling lots of FC cricket lately. Rashid too was playing as a FC batting allrounder but limited overs almost-specialist bowler for some time. I'm sure I could think of more if I actually went through the squad lists as well.

Key themes in this bunch seem to be that they're mainly spinners and, rather than actually specialising in "FC batting and T20 bowling" or something like that, seem to very fluid in the sort of roles they can be used in across formats, even at the same time, and as such their roles change. The only example I can think of someone who really focused in on developing one skill in one format a different skill in another format is Michael Yardy, who played for England as a specialist bowler in both T20 and ODI cricket, but averaged over 70 with the ball in FC cricket and held his spot there as a specialist batsman.
 
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honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Thanks for the examples, guys. Really is a very interesting phenomenon.

I assume you can make a pretty decent living out of playing all formats of the English county season. So I guess that pushes these guys to maximize their abilities and earn the pay by customizing their skill sets for different formats and playing different roles therein. But I would hope that the ones who are considered serious international prospects and are in and around the squads can understand their role expectation within the England set up and move towards playing that role for their counties.
 
mr_mister

mr_mister

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Was Adam Hollioake another used differently from FC to ODIs? Feels like he shouldn't have gotten much bowl in ODIs based on his FC stats but he was used often as a bowler
 
J

JRC67

U19 12th Man
honestbharani said:
Thanks for the examples, guys. Really is a very interesting phenomenon.

I assume you can make a pretty decent living out of playing all formats of the English county season. So I guess that pushes these guys to maximize their abilities and earn the pay by customizing their skill sets for different formats and playing different roles therein. But I would hope that the ones who are considered serious international prospects and are in and around the squads can understand their role expectation within the England set up and move towards playing that role for their counties.
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The common theme with many of them is they are crease occupying batsmen in the longer form of the game. There are quite a few more expansive batsman who would probably have virtually stopped bowling 10 years ago who have turned themselves in to useful mainly T20 and 50 over bowlers. Livingstone at Lancs and Lawrence at Essex are 2 obvious examples.

Dawson started as a spin bowling all rounder, had a period almost exclusively as a batsman In 4 day cricket. TRJ started out almost exclusively as a batsman and emerged as a bowling all rounder in his late teans and early 20s.

It may be easier for players who are mainly bowlers in the shorter format but batsmen in the longer to adapt to international cricket as they aren't changing their batting game to try and score quick runs.
 
wpdavid

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
Marius said:
This is how you write about Temba Bavuma. Not that dross that Moonda scribbled the other day.

https://callingthroughthefog.wordpress.com/2017/08/03/temba-bavuma-a-rock-in-a-hard-place/amp/
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Good piece. And you can see why some folks think he should bat at number 3 for the Proteas.

My one quibble would be where the writer excludes his hundred against England to reinforce the point, as batting averages do tend to fall when you exclude someone's highest score. But other than that, it's a good analysis that gives credit where due.
 
wpdavid

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
I know I'm hitting miserable old git mode, but I wish they'd left it until after he retired. Surely it's tempting fate at this moment in time.
 
Adders

Adders

Cricketer Of The Year
wpdavid said:
I know I'm hitting miserable old git mode, but I wish they'd left it until after he retired. Surely it's tempting fate at this moment in time.
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Yeah I agree.........but I'm a sad old git too.

Has there ever been a stand named after a player that's still playing, or is this a first?
 
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