*** Official*** South Africa in England 2017

[honestbharani]

TBH, I think how finger spinners go in Australia is almost always reliant on how well the new ball bowlers of that side bowl. When they do well, the finger spinners become that much better.

 

[StephenZA]

TBH, I think how finger spinners go in Australia is almost always reliant on how well the new ball bowlers of that side bowl. When they do well, the finger spinners become that much better.

Isn`t that true for just about every 3/4th bowler. If the opening pair take 4 wickets then it puts pressure on batting side? If you don`t take wickets then the 3/4th bowler can be put under pressure?

 

[honestbharani]

Nah.. if you are a wrist spinner or a seamer I think you get something more out of those tracks down under than finger spinners do.

 

[Top_Cat]

Really, the best an oppo finger spinner can do in Oz is a job. Very few in the history of Tests in Australia have left with their records intact.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Really, the best an oppo finger spinner can do in Oz is a job. Very few in the history of Tests in Australia have left with their records intact.

Basically what Swann did when we won was about as good as it gets. Helped win in Adelaide and took a few important wickets but was basically there to give the quicks a break.

 

[Top_Cat]

It's why it was so unusual (and admirable) what Kumble did. Took wickets but boy did he have to work for them, notwithstanding the super dead tracks that tour.

 

[Furball]

What in particular?

He's not bowling him into the ground the way Cook often liked to do and seems to be able to think longer term in terms of managing his workload.

As for Old Trafford, it's been total garbage as a Test pitch since they turned the square.

 

[wpdavid]

He's not bowling him (Anderson) into the ground the way Cook often liked to do and seems to be able to think longer term in terms of managing his workload.

As for Old Trafford, it's been total garbage as a Test pitch since they turned the square.

Yeah, I saw something of that yesterday. He only came on mid morning to bowl half a dozen overs or so, whereas I'd confidently told my son that he and Broad would be starting proceedings.
He actually looked more dangerous than Broad when he did come on. Far too good for Chris Morris, anyway.

As for Old Trafford, that's a real shame. I remember Harmison having one of his better tests there, against Pakistan back in 2006; Panesar too, come to think of it..

Judging by other people's comments about the slowness of the pitch, perhaps Ball would have been a better pick than Finn for this test, assuming he's fit.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

I think it is good the way Root is handling Anderson. Might get an extra year out of him and hopefully get more good spells from him as he is fresher. It will be an enormous help if TRJ was to become a test bowler and give us a reliable 3rd option with Stokes a great 4th as it will mean that he can do the donkey work which looking over the last few years he seems to thrive on for Middlesex.

I haven't forgotten Woakes either, before anyone says anything as you probably need 6 good pacemen anyway if you are playing 4 as you will always have one injured and one out of form.

 

[Furball]

Yeah, I saw something of that yesterday. He only came on mid morning to bowl half a dozen overs or so, whereas I'd confidently told my son that he and Broad would be starting proceedings.
He actually looked more dangerous than Broad when he did come on. Far too good for Chris Morris, anyway.

As for Old Trafford, that's a real shame. I remember Harmison having one of his better tests there, against Pakistan back in 2006; Panesar too, come to think of it..

Judging by other people's comments about the slowness of the pitch, perhaps Ball would have been a better pick than Finn for this test, assuming he's fit.

Realistically Root's going to get an absolute maximum of 2 more years out of Anderson, whereas TRJ could be his go-to guy for the next 5 years. It's good to see Root entrusting him early in his captaincy and TRJ's career instead of going to default 'give the ball to Jimmy/Broad' method.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Really, the best an oppo finger spinner can do in Oz is a job. Very few in the history of Tests in Australia have left with their records intact.

Saqlain, Kumble and Herath the only ones who've had decent tours in the last 20 years or so I think. Even most wrist spinners have had a torrid time tbh.

 

[honestbharani]

Kumble is a wrist spinner though. Its only really Herath, Saqlain and Vettori and even they had what can only be called moderate success. Its not like they were getting fifers every time they bowled or whatever.


Think a lot has to do with the fact that those pitches just stay hard for the entire duration of the game. Even the slightest unevenness in pace and/or bounce can be taken advantage by quality finger spinners but when you give them hard surfaces that never break up, there is very little they can do to defeat batsmen without help from external factors (external to their bowling).

 

[Top_Cat]

Saqlain, Kumble and Herath the only ones who've had decent tours in the last 20 years or so I think. Even most wrist spinners have had a torrid time tbh.

Even then, was only one good innings generally, like half their series poles in one knock. Kumble, from memory, the only one to take consistent wickets on different decks. Aussie tour is a rough gig.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Can't wait to see Mark "I can't even average 35 in first class cricket" Stoneman take to test cricket. It's going to be a must see event.

I can't wait to see Crap CW "I can judge every player on a 5 seconds glance at a stat" Poster get banned so we can see less mindless drivel on the Forums. It would make CricketWeb a must-visit forum.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Bayliss remains unconvinced of need for eight batsmen - ESPN Cricinfo

Face meet palm.

 

[Furball]

Kumble is a wrist spinner though. Its only really Herath, Saqlain and Vettori and even they had what can only be called moderate success. Its not like they were getting fifers every time they bowled or whatever.


Think a lot has to do with the fact that those pitches just stay hard for the entire duration of the game. Even the slightest unevenness in pace and/or bounce can be taken advantage by quality finger spinners but when you give them hard surfaces that never break up, there is very little they can do to defeat batsmen without help from external factors (external to their bowling).

Conditions just aren't spin friendly.

Even Shane Warne took his 21st century wickets at 29 a piece at home vs 22 (iirc) away.

 

[FBU]

Realistically Root's going to get an absolute maximum of 2 more years out of Anderson, whereas TRJ could be his go-to guy for the next 5 years. It's good to see Root entrusting him early in his captaincy and TRJ's career instead of going to default 'give the ball to Jimmy/Broad' method.

Two more years! He should have about 600 wickets by then.

 

[honestbharani]

Conditions just aren't spin friendly.

Even Shane Warne took his 21st century wickets at 29 a piece at home vs 22 (iirc) away.

Yeah that is basically what I said. When the wickets remain hard, you have to get something off the pitch somehow and wrist spinners get more overspin on the ball which perhaps does a bit more that is unexpected than the regular sidespin does..

 

[Moonsorrow999]

Bayliss remains unconvinced of need for eight batsmen - ESPN Cricinfo

Face meet palm.

Cometh the man, cometh the hour! Liam Dawson to return!

 

[honestbharani]

I dont mind him thinking they need an extra bowler if the pitch will easier to bat on, but surely there are better ones than Dawson for that purpose.