***Official*** South Africa in New Zealand 2017

[Zinzan]

hmm, reckon zinzan wants to defend Wagner here but it's hard to do so without admitting he was wrong about Shakib.

GW Howsie.

Jeez you're a tedious ****. FMD that you're not spotting the difference here. At no stage did anyone start a "Wagner vs. the ATG bowlers" thread.

Dire **** posting. Some of us don't rate Shakib as an ATG, get over it ffs.

 

[Zinzan]

Looks like QDK is available to play, very happy about that... but some sympathy for Klaasesn. Would like to have seen how he went at the higher level.

Where's the respite? This is going to be another blood bath. Be interesting whether SA bat first when they win the toss, I assume they will on this deck.

 

[Zinzan]

Because he'll play in the future probably. Would be a solid way to gauge media/social media reaction, and to even lessen it for if he actually does come in and play for NZ.

Agree it's a solid way to transition him into the environment, but I don't think it's NZ cricket's obligation is to gauge media reaction, that would be tail wagging dog stuff.

He's been acquitted, so he's available, end of.

 

[jcas0167]

Where's the respite? This is going to be another blood bath. Be interesting whether SA bat first when they win the toss, I assume they will on this deck.

The respite is in playing on a slower wicket than the Basin so the top order won't be opened up as easily. Latham, Kane & Broom must be due some runs.

 

[Flem274*]

My take on Kugglejuggle is he was technically not guilty and not guilty doesn't equate to innocent. The girl by the sounds of it either gave in or stopped saying no but didn't say yes either and his sleazeball attack lawyer did a good job of using the "your no meant yes right? why were you on the pill and wearing those clothes then?" tactics.

You wouldn't leave him alone in a room with your sister in a million years but he's been ruled not guilty, which means he gets to carry on with life and do his job. You don't have to support him(and I don't think I can) , but provided his selection causes no issues in the team then NZ can pick him. As a cricketer he's always been encouraging because he's visibly improved as a bowler every year. If NZ had most improved player awards for domestix he would have won it 2-3 times by now. It's the right selection performance wise.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Jeez you're a tedious ****. FMD that you're not spotting the difference here. At no stage did anyone start a "Wagner vs. the ATG bowlers" thread.

Dire **** posting. Some of us don't rate Shakib as an ATG, get over it ffs.

Seems a little unnecessary. Pretty sure he was joking.

 

[Howsie]

Jesus Phelgm "You wouldn't leave him in a room with your sister in a million years" That's a little bit over the top no? Yeah, he might have some sleeze ball in him but he's not a ****ing monster, ****.

 

[Zinzan]

Jesus Phelgm "You wouldn't leave him in a room with your sister in a million years" That's a little bit over the top no? Yeah, he might have some sleeze ball in him but he's not a ****ing monster, ****.

Yup, as if he and his family haven't been put through the wringer enough in the last year or so, I feared this might happen to the bloke if he was acquitted. Time for people to move on & let him get on with his life.

 

[Marius]

This guy is obviously a tool, to be in a situation where you end up at trial charged with rape, shows something fishy happened. But the guy was found 'not guilty'. Maybe it's not the same as innocent, but it's also not the same as guilty.

The guy should be allowed to carry on with his life as he sees fit, and NZC should pick him if they think he'll play a role in the side.

As I said before Makhaya Ntini is a good example. Ntini was found guilty of rape, and he appealed the verdict. Rightly, while this was going on he wasn't picked for SA, and if I remember right, he was dropped from the 1999 WC squad and replaced by Roger Telemachus. On appeal he was subsequently found not guilty. He went on to have a full career for SA and is one of SA's greatest fast bowlers, and was also the first black person to play for SA. I'm not saying Kuggelein (sp?) is like that, but Ntini had the chance to have a full international career after what he did (even after initially being found guilty!) and this Kiwi fellow should have the same opportunity.

I have not followed this case closely, but it does seem that Kuggelein doesn't treat women properly and seems to think he's entitled to them etc. But if that was a disqualification from playing top cricket, say goodbye to Chris Gayle, Herschelle Gibbs, Shane Warne, Ian Botham etc.

 

[Daemon]

Jeez you're a tedious ****. FMD that you're not spotting the difference here. At no stage did anyone start a "Wagner vs. the ATG bowlers" thread.

Dire **** posting. Some of us don't rate Shakib as an ATG, get over it ffs.

I have 4 posts in that Shakib thread, of which exactly 0 involve chipping into that recent debate about his ATGness

On the other hand you have 38 posts there, about 50% more than anyone else.

But please, do tell me all about how tedious I am.

 

[vcs]

Jeez you're a tedious ****. FMD that you're not spotting the difference here. At no stage did anyone start a "Wagner vs. the ATG bowlers" thread.

Dire **** posting. Some of us don't rate Shakib as an ATG, get over it ffs.

Think you are taking this overly personal, mate.

No one minds that you don't rate Shakib as an ATG allrounder, or even a world-class one, based on sample size against top teams etc.

It's just that the logic you used to discount his good performances is completely unconvincing.

 

[Zinzan]

Think you are taking this overly personal, mate.

No one minds that you don't rate Shakib as an ATG allrounder, or even a world-class one, based on sample size against top teams etc.

It's just that the logic you used to discount his good performances is completely unconvincing.

Jeez, can we please move on..this is the NZ/SA tour thread FFS. Thanks. Holy ****.

 

[Flem274*]

Jesus Phelgm "You wouldn't leave him in a room with your sister in a million years" That's a little bit over the top no? Yeah, he might have some sleeze ball in him but he's not a ****ing monster, ****.

Yup, as if he and his family haven't been put through the wringer enough in the last year or so, I feared this might happen to the bloke if he was acquitted. Time for people to move on & let him get on with his life.

well i wouldn't. whine all you like.

and i like how, of everything said about kugglejuggle in that post (improved bowler, not guilty, deserves to move on with his life) the pair of you leap on that comment.

you like to criticise posters for being too emotional in your eyes zinzan, but in this thread all you've really done today is leap down peoples throats. we expect this from howsie every time one of his pink bois status as supreme gods of the universe is questioned, but mate i don't think people rating shakib higher than you do or me finding kuggs a bit dubious is bringing about the apocalypse any time soon.

and you should have gone on that wine trip. if following nz cricket has taught me anything it is to always choose to go do fun stuff if its on offer rather than risking missing out on that to watch nz capitulate at random.

 

[Days of Grace]

So, South Africa to bat first when they win the toss?

 

[Zinzan]

So, South Africa to bat first when they win the toss?

Haha, my thoughts precisely.

 

[Zinzan]

well i wouldn't. whine all you like.

and i like how, of everything said about kugglejuggle in that post (improved bowler, not guilty, deserves to move on with his life) the pair of you leap on that comment.

you like to criticise posters for being too emotional in your eyes zinzan, but in this thread all you've really done today is leap down peoples throats. we expect this from howsie every time one of his pink bois status as supreme gods of the universe is questioned, but mate i don't think people rating shakib higher than you do or me finding kuggs a bit dubious is bringing about the apocalypse any time soon.

and you should have gone on that wine trip. if following nz cricket has taught me anything it is to always choose to go do fun stuff if its on offer rather than risking missing out on that to watch nz capitulate at random.

Good advice, still sour with this mob for dropping their bundle as badly as they did on Saturday. Quality opposition or not, that was cream-puff valley.

 

[Smudge]

well i wouldn't. .

Sounds to me like you've got a hot sister.




Pics???

 

[Immenso]

On Kugs.

just observing him from his behaviour on the field on the pooch and televised sky games. He's not your normal sports jock. He's either / or quiet, sullen, shy, self concious , etc

His behaviour after an alleged rape is also not typical. Still in the room and in bed and being told by a flat mate to leave.

I definitely think there is scope here for a big social misunderstanding/ misreading of events by him,

I don't think he is typical guy socially .

While not nearly as bad as rape, is also an awkward embarrassing thing to bring up in the media that social skills played a part.

Just my observation. Never met him. May be clouded by my backing him and admiring him as a cricketer for several years. I was a very shy young guy once who got picked up by a woman who was too drunk by the time we got to her place and then too hungover in the morning. Nothing happened, but who knows what if she'd had a slightly more passive personality and I'd misread the situation.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

given he was a 24 year old hanging out at a 1st/2nd year flat party, that seems doubtful

 

[straw man]

On Kugs.

just observing him from his behaviour on the field on the pooch and televised sky games. He's not your normal sports jock. He's either / or quiet, sullen, shy, self concious , etc

His behaviour after an alleged rape is also not typical. Still in the room and in bed and being told by a flat mate to leave.

I definitely think there is scope here for a big social misunderstanding/ misreading of events by him,

I don't think he is typical guy socially .

While not nearly as bad as rape, is also an awkward embarrassing thing to bring up in the media that social skills played a part.

Just my observation. Never met him. May be clouded by my backing him and admiring him as a cricketer for several years. I was a very shy young guy once who got picked up by a woman who was too drunk by the time we got to her place and then too hungover in the morning. Nothing happened, but who knows what if she'd had a slightly more passive personality and I'd misread the situation.

While there's a fair bit of projection going on in this post, I think you're saying there's some potential for misunderstanding in that type of situation, which is true (and a cricket forum is probably a good place to find sympathy for once having been awkward and having no idea of the right behaviour around girls!). No idea if that applies to Kuggeleijn or not.