Australian Test Selection Thread 2017 - 2018

[Midwinter]

It's also the 'Junior Development" and "High Performance" approach.

Once these programs are introduced a bureaucracy is formed which then sets about building an empire, ( in public service speak).

In order to do that and to justify their positions they have to promote the products of their programs (and surreptiously denigrate any alternatives). Qlympic sports are examples of this.

Pat Cummins is the product of both these types of programs.

Unfortunately we observers lose the opportunity to have a transparent process of assessing players through their performance in the domestic competitions.


Cummins looks good, Will he be good enough ? Only time will tell. I hope so

 

[honestbharani]

It's what I'm calling the Stephen O'Keefe Selection Policy (SOSP).

Surprisingly, if you pick guys who have been successful in Shield over a number of years, they'll do better in tests that guys who haven't (even if they're a bit ugly) - refer Bucky Rogers and Stephen O'Keefe.

Unfortunately Australian selectors use the CommBank/KFC Marketability Selection Policy (CKFCMSP), which means that if you resemble Keith Miller in looks (but not necessarily in talent), that is black hair, tall and angular with chiselled features (Mitch Marsh, Shaun Marsh, Cummins, Watson (albeit blonde) you will be selected whenever fit and regardless of form of match conditioning.

It's also the 'Junior Development" and "High Performance" approach.

Once these programs are introduced a bureaucracy is formed which then sets about building an empire, ( in public service speak).

In order to do that and to justify their positions they have to promote the products of their programs (and surreptiously denigrate any alternatives). Qlympic sports are examples of this.

Pat Cummins is the product of both these types of programs.

Unfortunately we observers lose the opportunity to have a transparent process of assessing players through their performance in the domestic competitions.


Cummins looks good, Will he be good enough ? Only time will tell. I hope so

Its ok guys, you can blame Greg Chappell directly. No need to invent 10 letter long acronym policies.

 

[Top_Cat]

Aus selectors hard-on for Pat Cummins reached new heights.

Can you imagine being one of the guys who's played every Shield game for the last 4-5 years, taken 40+ wickets a year (or thereabouts) and get rewarded by being selected 13th man for one test or something, then this guy comes a long and plays one first-class game in like 2-3 years and gets catapulted into the Test team.

Not saying it's the "wrong" selection but interesting to look at different perspectives

This is literally how life works.

And he didn't just play one game, he played one game, bowled a heap of overs at pace and took 8 poles. The 'one game in 6 years' thing is such a meme too, in other years he'd have played Shield matches by now and either broken down or proven beyond doubt what we already know, that he's a genius.

Sure one can bang on about how much guys like Bird and Sayers have missed out but they've all had the last 6 years of not competing - at all - with Cummins to lock him out and haven't been able to. Cummins has spent that time missing out on a ton of cricket I'm sure he would rather have played. If we're talking about differing perspectives, you can imagine he probably feels a little bit like he's due.

This not all at you, just the idea that Cummins is being catapulted in because of reasons other than cricketing ability. Fact is, bloke's a gun and when you have that gun available, you don't keep it in the holster for fear of running out of bullets. He's just more likely to take Test wickets than the other guys, regardless of their Shield performance. That's life.

 

[honestbharani]

Also, isn't Bird still the 3rd seamer of choice? I would think he is replaced by SOK more than Cummins in this context.

 

[TheJediBrah]

This is literally how life works.

It's really not though. Transplant this as an analogy into other jobs and situations and it doesn't make sense.

Let's say you run a law firm and you need to pick a new "partner" or promote someone or whatever. You've got 2 or 3 fantastic lawyers who have been dominating their field for a decade, but you ignore them and promote that guy who worked for a week and seemed really smart, but then had to take 2 years off to deal with stress and mental issues but now he's back, worked for a week and thinks he'll be right!

This not all at you, just the idea that Cummins is being catapulted in because of reasons other than cricketing ability. Fact is, bloke's a gun and when you have that gun available, you don't keep it in the holster for fear of running out of bullets. He's just more likely to take Test wickets than the other guys, regardless of their Shield performance. That's life.

I never said that, and like I said it might even be the best selection. Just was playing devil's advocate and trying to see things from the other guys' perspective. The selectors will look pretty silly if he hurts himself again though.

 

[Red]

Everyone knows Cummins' upside is massive. Still doesn't mean you launch him back into a test in India on the back of one FC game, imo.

Hopefully he takes 8 wickets this test and proves me wrong, because I love him.

 

[stephen]

The purpose of the pathways and junior development machines should be to get players ready for shield cricket so that they can cope at that level. Shield should be the meat grinder in the Australian sausage factory. Only the best play in shield and our test sides are picked on shield performances.

Having said that, Cummins has enough talent that I think picking him is the absolute right choice.

 

[TheJediBrah]

It's also the 'Junior Development" and "High Performance" approach.

Once these programs are introduced a bureaucracy is formed which then sets about building an empire, ( in public service speak).

In order to do that and to justify their positions they have to promote the products of their programs (and surreptiously denigrate any alternatives). Qlympic sports are examples of this.

Pat Cummins is the product of both these types of programs.

Unfortunately we observers lose the opportunity to have a transparent process of assessing players through their performance in the domestic competitions.


Cummins looks good, Will he be good enough ? Only time will tell. I hope so

This is such a fascinating point that I'd never really considered before. Could very well be incentive to pick these guys for that very reason.

 

[Spikey]

lyon, starc & pattinson were all picked for test cricket before they had taken a five wicket haul in FC cricket, and Hazelwood should have been picked before his first 5er too. ryan harris got picked fairly sure after his first good FC season too. it's just different for bowlers.

 

[GotSpin]

Nahhh, Cummins is a massive talent. You don't keep him locked up in the sheds when a huge series is at steak

 

[Burgey]

If Haze had broken down they'd have gone for a bloke like Sayers as a replacement and picked Bird for the test. It's like for like in this situation

 

[Spark]

lyon, starc & pattinson were all picked for test cricket before they had taken a five wicket haul in FC cricket, and Hazelwood should have been picked before his first 5er too. ryan harris got picked fairly sure after his first good FC season too. it's just different for bowlers.

yeah. sometimes you just look at someone and you just sort of know.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Nahhh, Cummins is a massive talent. You don't keep him locked up in the sheds when a huge series is at steak

Are they even allowed this in India?

 

[adub]

I don't think there's any question a fit Cummins would be in almost any Australian Test XII.

The only question is if he really is ready for long spells on Indian decks.

Certainly seemed strong throughout the pyjama stuff and bowled plenty in the Shield game (and a couple of futures) so he should be in good shape, but you always have that nagging doubt with him.

Fingers crossed.

 

[adub]

Damn I'd love to see Haze, Starc, Patto and Cummins unleashed on the poms at least once next summer.

Give us an old style WACA pitch and Maxi making 6 his spot and it just might happen.

 

[Top_Cat]

The best part of that line-up is that Starc is probably the worst of them.

 

[Starfighter]

The big question would be who the hell'd take the new ball?

 

[adub]

The best part of that line-up is that Starc is probably the worst of them.

correct

 

[Gnske]

For the summer we should honestly take this side

Renshaw
Cowan
Khawaja
Smith
Handscomb
Maxwell
O'Keefe
Cummins
Hazlewood
Pattinson
Wade

 

[TheJediBrah]

The big question would be who the hell'd take the new ball?

Haze and Starc probably. Cummins definitely not, and while Patto is potentially the best of them you'd want consistency (Haze) at one end and they'd probably want Starc with the newey because of his left-arm swingy-ness