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*Official* English Football Season 2016-17

Cabinet96

Cabinet96

Hall of Fame Member
Assumed it was the club trying to get fans to turn against him but David Hytner suggesting it wasn't the club. Maybe a disgruntled teammate, though pretty poor to leak something like that.

Reckon it'll get quite ugly tbh. A few saying that we need more with his mentality etc but reckon he'll be pretty disliked by most when it's all done. Seems a bit RVP like.
 
Uppercut

Uppercut

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Yeah possibly, although I think they'd remember RVP quite positively if he'd left England. Certainly did Henry no harm when he flounced out because he thought his team mates were shite.

It's interesting if his team mates did leak it, because the media consensus is probably going to be that they're so entrenched in mediocrity that they chased a world class player out of the club because he demanded more commitment.
 
Cabinet96

Cabinet96

Hall of Fame Member
Yep. In fact none of that generation at all ever receive any stick for leaving to perceived better things, whereas basically everyone after who left in similar circumstances is disliked. Major trophies are everything for fans.

Also one thing that pissed people off with RVP was that he came out and said he didn't agree with Wenger's management of the squad and requested certain players to be sold which is pretty poor. Not sure going abroad would've made people forget that.
 
sledger

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Uppercut said:
Are the Arsenal fans siding with Sanchez? Who do you think leaked it?
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I'm with the club on this one. I understand Sanchez's frustrations, but generally speaking in this kind of situation(i.e. when a world class player publicly strops about how crap his team mates are) I'm usually of the opinion that any benefits a great player provides are outweighed by the detriments caused in relation to how the rest of the squad feels inhibited etc.

You could see it in the days before Henry left. Henry would visibly yell at the other players in the squad whenever they did something the slightest bit wrong, and most looked terrified of taking shots/attempting passes/doing anything other than passing to Henry himself. Rather than going for goal themselves when the chance prevented it was like they would bend over backwards to pass the ball to Henry instead. You just can't have a situation like that. It's the same with any other system involving people, be it social or professional. Once you involve someone who's just upsetting everyone else something has got to change otherwise everything will go down the pan, and the only real options are to either boot out the troublemaker or rip up the entire system and start it again from the ground up.

In the immediate situation only the former is realistic, so I unless there is a remarkable turnaround somehow, I suspect he will be gone by August. And no doubt it will be Wenger who unfairly (to some extent at least) cops the blame for it as well.
 
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Uppercut

Uppercut

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sledger said:
I'm with the club on this one. I understand Sanchez's frustrations, but generally speaking in this kind of situation(i.e. when a world class player publicly strops about how crap his team mates are) I'm usually of the opinion that any benefits a great player provides are outweighed by the detriments caused in relation to how the rest of the squad feels inhibited etc.

You could see it in the days before Henry left. Henry would visibly yell at the other players in the squad whenever they did something the slightest bit wrong, and most looked terrified of taking shots/attempting passes/doing anything other than passing to Henry himself. Rather than going for goal themselves when the chance prevented it was like they would bend over backwards to pass the ball to Henry instead. You just can't have a situation like that. It's the same with any other system involving people, be it social or professional. Once you involve someone who's just upsetting everyone else something has got to change otherwise everything will go down the pan, and the only real options are to either boot out the troublemaker or rip up the entire system and start it again from the ground up.

In the immediate situation only the former is realistic, so I unless there is a remarkable turnaround somehow, I suspect he will be gone by August. And no doubt it will be Wenger who unfairly (to some extent at least) cops the blame for it as well.
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This was probably true for Henry at Arsenal, although it is curious how that story has stuck despite Arsenal winning nothing after he left. But it's not a general rule that everyone needs to be getting along and anyone who rocks the boat should be let go. Some teams function much better with a lot of internal conflict, a lot of the Mourinho/Simeone/Clough management style is based around constantly creating it. I suspect that another type of manager would have backed Sanchez up long before it got to the point where he was storming off training grounds. Ferguson probably would have too, but only because his pragmatic approach was to let his best player get away with anything.

I also don't think it's quite comparable to the Henry situation. Henry was pissed because he thought he was much better than his team-mates. Whereas my impression is that Sanchez is pissed because he thinks his team-mates aren't committed enough. The latter is much more justified.
 
sledger

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Uppercut said:
This was probably true for Henry at Arsenal, although it is curious how that story has stuck despite Arsenal winning nothing after he left. But it's not a general rule that everyone needs to be getting along and anyone who rocks the boat should be let go. Some teams function much better with a lot of internal conflict, a lot of the Mourinho/Simeone/Clough management style is based around constantly creating it. I suspect that another type of manager would have backed Sanchez up long before it got to the point where he was storming off training grounds. Ferguson probably would have too, but only because his pragmatic approach was to let his best player get away with anything.

I also don't think it's quite comparable to the Henry situation. Henry was pissed because he thought he was much better than his team-mates. Whereas my impression is that Sanchez is pissed because he thinks his team-mates aren't committed enough. The latter is much more justified.
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Yeah that's all fair enough. I guess we just don't know about the situation to really comment. My take was just based on the presumption that things had really hit rock bottom and he had totally alienated himself the rest of the dressing room. Like you say there's no need for everyone to be best pals, but there's a limit on how toxic things can get before action needs to be taken.

On the Henry comparison, whilst Arsenal didn't win anything for a while after he left, it's also worth keeping in mind that at the time Arsenal hadn't won anything whilst he was still there (in comparison to Arsenal's standards at the time anyway).
 
Lillian Thomson

Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
Never mind all this cobblers. The Plymouth v Blackpool match kicks off at 7:30pm tomorrow. The first time in about 40 years that it hasn't been 7:45pm and it's bloody inconvenient.
 
Cabinet96

Cabinet96

Hall of Fame Member
sledger said:
On the Henry comparison, whilst Arsenal didn't win anything for a while after he left, it's also worth keeping in mind that at the time Arsenal hadn't won anything whilst he was still there (in comparison to Arsenal's standards at the time anyway).
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The season after he left was the closest we ever got to the winning the league after 03/04 as well.
 
cpr

cpr

International Coach
To be fair to Fergie, we were 3-0 down and we won the second half 1-0. Then when we came back next season we scored 3



just let in 6 too.....
 
sledger

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Come on Arsenal. Just show a bit of ****ing spine tonight. I'm fully braced for another heroic failure, but I think I might jack in my fandom if they get rolled again.
 
wpdavid

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
Good first half, tbf, albeit not the miracle that they need. Should have had a penalty too, by all accounts.
 
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