The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[veganbob]

Id also pick yuvraj over crowe. Some nz fans put too much on 92 world cup. 2015 was way better. Yuvraj has played more match winning knocks that crowe did, and bowled well too. Kane and kohli walk.in at 3 and 4 , so yuvi is pretty obvious at 5

 

[bagapath]

Bordering on Greatness XI

Graham Gooch (C)
Desmond Haynes
Richie Richardson
Aravinda de Silva
Doug Walters
Shakib Al Hasan
Andrew Flintoff
Brad Haddin (WK)
Mitchell Johnson
Saqlain Mushtaq
Courtney Walsh

 

[OverratedSanity]

Walsh is a great surely?

 

[veganbob]

Are you talking tests or odis? Cause saqlain is surely a odi great.

 

[bagapath]

Are you talking tests or odis? Cause saqlain is surely a odi great.

Only for tests...

 

[honestbharani]

Bordering on Greatness XI

Graham Gooch (C)
Desmond Haynes
Richie Richardson
Aravinda de Silva
Doug Walters
Shakib Al Hasan
Andrew Flintoff
Brad Haddin (WK)
Mitchell Johnson
Saqlain Mushtaq
Courtney Walsh

Lacking some Allan Border there.. .

 

[Red]

Lacking some Allan Border there.. .

@burgey

 

[Red]

Gooch is a great IMO. Averaged 44 as an opening bat against the WIs in the 80s.

Only flaw in his record is against Australia and a lot of that is to do with Alderman having his measure for some reason.

 

[veganbob]

Chris cairns ahead of flintoff. Apart from a couple year period flintoff was not all that in test cricket

 

[stephen]

The "almost great XI" has got me thinking we should do a forest and 2nd XI for each nation, with more focus on the second XI.

I'll start with Aus:

First:
Hayden
Trumper
Bradman
Ponting
Chappell G
Border (c)
Gilchrist (wk)
Warne
Davidson
Lillee
McGrath

2nd:
Simpson
Lawry
Harvey
Clarke
Waugh S (c)
Hussey
Healy (wk)
Miller
Johnson
Lindwall
O'Reilly

Australia has been blessed with some fine players over the years. I couldn't find a place for Grimmet or Spofforth and our first choice batting order had to shift down one place to accommodate Bradman.

The hardest places though we're the openers. Australia has had many fine openers so I settled on Hayden and Trumper as the first choice pairing and Simpson and Lawry as the second choice.

The second choice team would be highly competitive against any other side IMO.

West Indies:

1st:
Hayne
Greenidge
Richards (c)
Lara
Walcott
Sobers
Dujon (wk)
Marshall
Holding
Garner
Ambrose

2nd XI:
Hunte
Gayle
Worrell (c)
Weekes
Lloyd
Chanderpaul
Jacobs (wk)
Gibbs
Walsh
Roberts
Hall

This 2nd team is immense. I can't imagine too many batsmen wanting to face that pace lineup. The batting is fantastic too.

I'd love to watch those 2nd XIs face off.

 

[Zinzan]

NZ 1st XI

Turner
Dempster
Willamson 6
Crowe
Taylor
McCullum*+
C Cairns 4
Vettori 5
Hadlee 1
Bond 2
Cowie 3

NZ 2nd XI

Wright
Richardson
Sutcliffe
Fleming*
Donnelly
John R Reid 4
Watling+
Bruce Taylor 3
Nash 2
John Bracewell 5
Boult 1

NZ 3rd XI

Latham
Jones
J F Reid
J Ryder 7
McMillan 6
Coney* 5
Oram 4
Parore+
Wagner 3
Doull 2
Collinge 1


NZ 4th XI


G Dowling
B Young
B Congdon
G Howarth*
S Styris 6
Giff Vivian 5
Ian Smith+
D Motz 1
Southee 2
S Boock 4
C Martin 3

 

[stephen]

That NZ first XI I think would be competitive with the WI and Aus 2nd XI but I really couldn't see the 2nd XI being overly competitive. Probably the bowling better than the batting though.

 

[Zinzan]

The "almost great XI" has got me thinking we should do a forest and 2nd XI for each nation, with more focus on the second XI.

I'll start with Aus:

First:
Hayden
Trumper
Bradman
Ponting
Chappell G
Border (c)
Gilchrist (wk)
Warne
Davidson
Lillee
McGrath

2nd:
Simpson
Lawry
Harvey
Clarke
Waugh S (c)
Hussey
Healy (wk)
Miller
Johnson
Lindwall
O'Reilly

I'd be finding a place for Miller in your firsts tbh, probably at Border's expense, as much as I rate Border.

 

[stephen]

I'd be finding a place for Miller in your firsts tbh, probably at Border's expense, as much as I rate Border.

I like Miller and think he was a fantastic cricketer. But I don't think an attack comprising McGrath, Lillee, Warne and Davidson is going to have any issues taking 20 wickets. Between the batsmen you could squeeze out 5-10 overs if absolutely necessary but IMO it's not worth sacrificing the extra batting Border provides, particularly when matched against the WIndies ATG attack.

 

[Zinzan]

I like Miller and think he was a fantastic cricketer. But I don't think an attack comprising McGrath, Lillee, Warne and Davidson is going to have any issues taking 20 wickets. Between the batsmen you could squeeze out 5-10 overs if absolutely necessary but IMO it's not worth sacrificing the extra batting Border provides, particularly when matched against the WIndies ATG attack.

Fair rationale I suppose, just doesn't sit well with me since I consider Miller a greatest Test cricketer than Border. Don't get me wrong, both were ATGs, but Miller is with Imran as one of the two greatest bowling all-rounders of all time, and with Imran arguably the most pure all-rounder.

 

[Zinzan]

Incidentally Stephen presumably Morris and Langer would open for your thirds?

Interesting Michael Clarke really rated Michael Slater's batting on his podcast, the other often forgotten Aussie opener.

 

[honestbharani]

Fair rationale I suppose, just doesn't sit well with me since I consider Miller a greatest Test cricketer than Border. Don't get me wrong, both were ATGs, but Miller is with Imran as one of the two greatest bowling all-rounders of all time, and with Imran arguably the most pure all-rounder.

Nah.. I would say Imran is the greatest bowling all rounder, Sobers the greatest batting all rounder and Miller the most pure all rounder (can make the side as a batsman/bowler)

 

[Zinzan]

Nah.. I would say Imran is the greatest bowling all rounder, Sobers the greatest batting all rounder and Miller the most pure all rounder (can make the side as a batsman/bowler)

Yeah, I didn't make that clear. I've always considered Miller and Imran the two greatest bowling allrounders and Sobers and Kallis the two best batting ARs.

At his very best and if he retired in the mid 80s, I'd actually say Botham was for a time the most pure AR I've ever seen, but I've heard from Australian cricket historians Miller was a genuine star with bat or ball.

 

[Days of Grace]

West Indies:

1st:
Hayne
Greenidge
Richards (c)
Lara
Walcott
Sobers
Dujon (wk)
Marshall
Holding
Garner
Ambrose

2nd XI:
Hunte
Gayle
Worrell (c)
Weekes
Lloyd
Chanderpaul
Jacobs (wk)
Gibbs
Walsh
Roberts
Hall

This 2nd team is immense. I can't imagine too many batsmen wanting to face that pace lineup. The batting is fantastic too.

I'd love to watch those 2nd XIs face off.

The Windies teams are missing Headley but maybe you feel he didn't play enough tests.

Anyway, I've been thinking about the bowling attack for the first XI and as ***y as having four fast bowlers is, for balance I'd rather have Gibbs in there in place of one of the four. Sobers does not cut it as a world class spinner whereas Gibbs was a gun through the 1960s.

Greenidge
Worrell*
Headley
Richards
Lara
Sobers
Dujon
Marshall
Holding
Ambrose
Gibbs

 

[bagapath]

Aussie 3rd XI

Langer
Ponsford
Hill
Walters
McCabe
Noble
Haddin +
Benaud *
M.Johnson
Thomson
Spofforth


Better than many other teams' second XIs and can actually compete with most first XIs