South Africa team selection

[ImpatientLime]

AB is skipping England tests as well.

Says he will play 4-day domestic cricket next season to prove fitness for India/Australia.

i'm sure he'll have proven his fitness during this years ipl.

piss weak from abdv. can't keep the board on a string like this on a series by series basis. either commit to selection or **** off.

 

[Marius]

No respect for anyone that gives up on proteas like this...I wouldn't be picking him for any side given this attitude.

He has lost all respect I had for him.

Played 98 consecutive Tests for the Proteas, kept when asked to do so even though he had a gammy back, has basically given his life to the team since he was 20, and you question his attitude and commitment?

 

[Stefan9]

Played 98 consecutive Tests for the Proteas, kept when asked to do so even though he had a gammy back, has basically given his life to the team since he was 20, and you question his attitude and commitment?

Your only as good as your last game and his attitude has been very very poor for the last 12 months...

 

[Rasimione]

Played 98 consecutive Tests for the Proteas, kept when asked to do so even though he had a gammy back, has basically given his life to the team since he was 20, and you question his attitude and commitment?

Zuma gave his life to the struggle, spent years in prison and then proceeded to not give a ****. What AB is doing is wrong, you can't let a player pick and choose which games to play no matter what he's done for the team in the past. I've also lost respect for him.

 

[Rasimione]

Your only as good as your last game and his attitude has been very very poor for the last 12 months...

De Villiers can't be bigger than the team. What he's doing is setting a very bad precedent.

 

[S.Kennedy]

I'm interpreting that as sort of 'weak' test retirement. To all intents and purposes he is now retired from Tests and focusing on one dayers, but they are basically leaving the door open.

 

[Furball]

i'm sure he'll have proven his fitness during this years ipl.

piss weak from abdv. can't keep the board on a string like this on a series by series basis. either commit to selection or **** off.

Other way round. My theory, which I posted in the de Villiers thread, is:

I think de Villiers has been told he only plays Tests if:

a) he opens
b) he keeps
c) he captains

The first 2 options probably aren't likely to be acceptable to de Villiers, as well as seeing a younger option dropped despite performing well over the last 6 months, option 3 sees his mate Faf unceremoniously booted from the side and it makes de Villiers look like a **** for stabbing his mate in the back.

There's simply no room in the XI for a 5th white player to play in the top 7. In a world where the South African XI was picked on merit, it would be Bavuma or Duminy who'd be making way, but South Africa need coloured (and particularly black) batting icons to inspire the next generation. Dropping a young black batsman for an ageing white batsman just goes completely against the whole transformation agenda.

De Villiers knows this. But he also knows that South African cricket is bigger than him. He's talented enough where he coukd just retire tomorrow and earn a fortune doing the T20 circuit - he doesn't need CSA. But CSA need him. They're currently losing young, talented white cricketers to England, New Zealand (and now possibly Australia, pretty sure there's a couple of kids coming through in Shield cricket of African origin). How much worse would that drain of talent be if AB de Villiers lifts the lid on what transformation means for white cricketers? How do you get talented white youngsters to stay in South Africa when AB de Villiers can't get a place in the Test side due to politics?

You can't. Hence de Villiers' weird public pronouncements. We need to believe that de Villiers not playing against New Zealand and England is entirely his own choice.

 

[Marius]

Just calculated the current quota average across all formats for the season (I worked it out since the ODI vs Ireland to date).

Average of black players is 2.2, coloured players is 2.2, Indian players is 1.6 (I counted Imran Tahir as Indian for these purposes but as an immigrant who knows if he counts), and white players 5.1.

Average for POCs overall is 5.9.

And those speculating that the T20 side will be loaded with POCs in general and black players in particular are right I think. The ODI vs Ireland had the lowest number of white players so far this season (4) and the highest number of black players (4).

 

[Furball]

I always thought Tahir didn't count because as an immigrant he wasn't previously disadvantaged by apartheid.

 

[StephenZA]

I always thought Tahir didn't count because as an immigrant he wasn't previously disadvantaged by apartheid.

He does count, even though powers that be don`t really like it. But players of colour not the issue really... its the no 'black' players that are causing headaches.

 

[Marius]

He does count, even though powers that be don`t really like it. But players of colour not the issue really... its the no 'black' players that are causing headaches.

I've never seen anyone complain about Tahir in the side? I remember there was an issue around Beast Mtawarira but that was because he was playing for the Springboks but wasn't travelling on an SA passport (if I remember correctly).

 

[StephenZA]

I've never seen anyone complain about Tahir in the side? I remember there was an issue around Beast Mtawarira but that was because he was playing for the Springboks but wasn't travelling on an SA passport (if I remember correctly).

Similar to the Beast issue as he was not born in SA, some statements made by the politicos (few years back now), but not a big deal was not made of it really... dont think anything was said in the cricket community itself, we where just glad to get a leg spinner in the national setup at the time.

 

[Marius]

RACEWATCH:

Average black presentation after this weekend's games is now 2.4, coloureds 2.1, Indians 1.5 and whites 4.9.

Overall average representation of POCs is 6.1.

So, we're meeting the racial representation requirements laid down by Oberführer Mbalula.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

What is the team make up in U-19s and 1st class etc.?

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Having seen the Springboks in the last couple of years - losses to Argentina, Japan, Italy, Wales etc (I won't include Ireland bcos they beat NZ - ) I hope that these selection policies don't damage SA cricket in the same way.

 

[Marius]

What is the team make up in U-19s and 1st class etc.?

Pretty diverse, Seam Up will be able to give you a more in-depth analysis.

 

[TT Boy]

Having seen the Springboks in the last couple of years - losses to Argentina, Japan, Italy, Wales etc (I won't include Ireland bcos they beat NZ - ) I hope that these selection policies don't damage SA cricket in the same way.

Did you count how many black players featured in those games? If you think the Springboks are awful because they are now selecting black players, like black players can't play rugby or indeed black players were not pivotal to South Africa winning a WC in 2007, then you haven’t watched much rugby.

 

[StephenZA]

Having seen the Springboks in the last couple of years - losses to Argentina, Japan, Italy, Wales etc (I won't include Ireland bcos they beat NZ - ) I hope that these selection policies don't damage SA cricket in the same way.

Problems in SA rugby have nothing to do with quota on the pitch... maybe the current coach, but there are few better options in SA (Ackermann is the only one). SA rugby is collapsing because of a lazy bloated, rich rugby unions thats goal is for own benefit and not that of the springboks, along with a useless SA rugby management. NZ rugby has excelled because 10 years ago it was decided, at the top level, that they were lacking skills in certain areas and the franchises and local rugby unions where not playing together for NZ rugby. This was changed and the All Blacks have benefited. In SA rugby whenever this is pointed out the local unions have a fit... until SA rugby and unions learn that it is not the centre of rugby in the world and gets its head out of its ass rugby in SA will continue to struggle regardless of any quota.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Did you count how many black players featured in those games? If you think the Springboks are awful because they are now selecting black players, like black players can't play rugby or indeed black players were not pivotal to South Africa winning a WC in 2007, then you haven’t watched much rugby.

That is true. I think French rugby, the weakness of the rand, and the stupidity of SARU to have 6 Super Rugby teams are probably bigger factors.

 

[sonnench]

Problems in SA rugby have nothing to do with quota on the pitch... maybe the current coach, but there are few better options in SA (Ackermann is the only one). SA rugby is collapsing because of a lazy bloated, rich rugby unions thats goal is for own benefit and not that of the springboks, along with a useless SA rugby management. NZ rugby has excelled because 10 years ago it was decided, at the top level, that they were lacking skills in certain areas and the franchises and local rugby unions where not playing together for NZ rugby. This was changed and the All Blacks have benefited. In SA rugby whenever this is pointed out the local unions have a fit... until SA rugby and unions learn that it is not the centre of rugby in the world and gets its head out of its ass rugby in SA will continue to struggle regardless of any quota.

While what you go on to explain I agree 100% with, to suggest quota's haven't effected the Bok's performance in any way is just false. The continuous selections of guys like Rudy Paige, Bongi, Oupa etc is clearly having an impact. None of those guys are of International quality, or even close to. And it's the guys that are missing out because of their inclusion that hurts SA more than their inclusion itself. Guys like Malcolm Marx aren't getting the run they deserve.