*Official* Bangladesh in New Zealand 2016/2017

[Blocky]

I think he's touched that.

Jammy ****ing wicket, but at least that brings Southee in for his six or out and hopefully Kane is forced to advance the game rather than drift away.

This test, combined with the previous ODI, T20s and performances against other teams has completely convinced me, Kane is not a captain's jockstrap.

 

[Zinzan]

Jeez a quick 40-50 off 20 balls from Southee would be valuable now.

 

[Dan]

Name someone who can do the job Santner has done for the past 12 months in tests though, I think Williamson should definitely bowl himself more, but Santner has taken wickets at 38, kept the runflow reasonably quiet and done so in conditions that don't usually offer him that much, and that's in his debut year. His batting needs to come on more, but bowling wise, take a look at the returns of Craig, Sodhi, Jeetan, Nethula, Astle etcetera to see why you just can't leave Santner out.

Also, the "Let him go get better at domestic" doesn't really work in NZ - captains do not know how to use spin here, pitches don't support spin here and they just don't progress unless they're in the national team or playing county style cricket.

Yeah, agree with this entirely. Santner's county stint was the best thing that could have happened for him, but, yeah, then the injury.

Kid is a serious talent; probably not 100% Test ready yet in either discipline, making him look like a bit of a no-rounder statistically, but his output as a spinner is better than 90% of the other options (if not all of them), and his batting is handy with some serious potential too.

People might be able to construct arguments for Jeets (on the basis of County form) or Tastle (on the basis of NZ domestic statz and #engineroom runs), but I don't think either of them actually do any better in real Tests played in real life than Santner does. He complements an attack-focussed pace group well, balances the team nicely, adds batting depth and allows the luxury of a seam-bowling all-rounder at 6 (or, soon enough, 8).

He's not a world beater now. He'll probably never be much more than Test-class at best. But he plays his role, does it well, and dropping him now would make no sense whatsoever given a) the alternatives and b) you're trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[Dan]

And I say all of this as a noted Tastle supporter, ftr.

 

[Blocky]

This is brilliant for the game.

 

[Athlai]

some over this

And far out, Imrul wag.

 

[Zinzan]

This is brilliant for the game.

I think Southee getting lucky and swinging wildly for 30 mins would have been brilliant for the game. This to me makes us more likely to be more defensive for these last 2 wickets...I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Zinzan]

Whatever happens for the rest of our innings, I hope it happens quickly.

 

[Blocky]

Yeah, agree with this entirely. Santner's county stint was the best thing that could have happened for him, but, yeah, then the injury.

Kid is a serious talent; probably not 100% Test ready yet in either discipline, making him look like a bit of a no-rounder statistically, but his output as a spinner is better than 90% of the other options (if not all of them), and his batting is handy with some serious potential too.

People might be able to construct arguments for Jeets (on the basis of County form) or Tastle (on the basis of NZ domestic statz and #engineroom runs), but I don't think either of them actually do any better in real Tests played in real life than Santner does. He complements an attack-focussed pace group well, balances the team nicely, adds batting depth and allows the luxury of a seam-bowling all-rounder at 6 (or, soon enough, 8).

He's not a world beater now. He'll probably never be much more than Test-class at best. But he plays his role, does it well, and dropping him now would make no sense whatsoever given a) the alternatives and b) you're trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

Yeah, all good points although one thing I'll note in Santner's favor is that spinners get better the more they bowl, and Santner hasn't bowled anywhere near as many overs as those you've mentioned and he's already a better bowler (in my mind) for the cricket NZ play. Jeetan is just a jammy prick in County Cricket, nothing he bowls indicates to me he'll ever be a force for NZ in the Test arena and his figures seem to agree. Astle bowls far too slowly with no where near enough revolution and drops the ball short too often, the best pure spinners we have are Craig and Sodhi and neither of them have any control, at all which erodes their value in the test arena.

You just keep playing him, if he continues to improve as much as he has in the last two years, while he won't be in the class of Jadeja, I think he could definitely have a Vettori career for NZ.

 

[Blocky]

I think Southee getting lucky and swinging wildly for 30 mins would have been brilliant for the game. This to me makes us more likely to be more defensive for these last 2 wickets...I hope I'm wrong.

Forces Santner to go after it to be honest, which isn't a bad thing because it might open him up.

Anything under 100 and I'd be confident that NZ have a better than 80% chance of either drawing or winning the match.

 

[Zinzan]

Santner deserves his spot simply because there's no more promising NZ Test spinning prospect who can also bat, but I don't think he'll ever be more than a poor-mans Vettori with the ball. He'll do some good batsmen with flight once and a while and will generally keep it tight, but I'll be surprised if he'll have a >35 bowling average, I think it will stay around that 37 mark, which is good enough for a NZ spinning allrounder to warrant his spot.

 

[Blocky]

Or, they'll just continue blocking the puss out of it.

****ing ridiculous. Have a go you idiots.

 

[Blocky]

Santner deserves his spot simply because there's no more promising NZ Test spinning prospect who can also bat, but I don't think he'll ever be more than a poor-mans Vettori with the ball. He'll do some good batsmen with flight once and a while and will generally keep it tight, but I'll be surprised if he'll have a >35 bowling average, I think it will stay around that 37 mark, which is good enough for a NZ spinning allrounder to warrant his spot.

You're talking about a 23 yr old spinner - have a look at Graeme Swann's career trajectory to see why you don't write off young spinners.

 

[Blocky]

Looked surely like he got a touch there.

Nope, hit his boot, squeezed straight through the middle, not out.

 

[Dick Rockett]

I really really wish that we would bat Tim Southee at 11.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

So Wagner slogs Steyn when we are trying to survive in South Africa, but blocks here. I blame McMillan

 

[cnerd123]

Mahmadullah

All other bowlers - 285 overs for 14 wickets
Mahmadullah - 1 over for 2 wickets

 

[Zinzan]

You're talking about a 23 yr old spinner - have a look at Graeme Swann's career trajectory to see why you don't write off young spinners.

We'll see. I think like Vettori, he's a smart kid & will learn as he goes along, but I just don't think he has the raw resources to be anywhere near as successful a Test spinner as Swann.

Don't forget how young Vettori was when he started, and he was an intelligent guy who learned as he went, but he always struggled with his bowling SR to be anywhere near a 30 average Test bowler.

 

[Blocky]

This is a bit silly by Bangladesh, spin has been tying them up - Wagner will attempt to hit anything fast and short, because that's his way of saying "**** you for trying my tactic"

 

[Blocky]

We'll see. I think like Vettori, he's a smart kid & will learn as he goes along, but I just don't think he has the raw resources to be anywhere near as successful a Test spinner as Swann.

Don't forget how young Vettori was when he started, and he was an intelligent guy who learned as he went, but he always struggled with his bowling SR to be anywhere near a 30 average Test bowler.

Vettori also had a debilitating back injury that meant he never grew as much as he should have, he was a better spinner in 2002 than he was in 2012 in test cricket.