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*Official* Bangladesh in New Zealand 2016/2017

Zinzan

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This Bangladesh are clearly not AFAIC. They're still a bad side because they're prone to ridiculous mental lapses but they clearly look test standard.
They do on this road against two of the least effective Test bowlers in the world when there's no seam, bounce, or swing, and a part time spinner. I'd like to see how they look on anything resembling what 'normal' NZ test conditions should be.
 
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OverratedSanity

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They do on this road against two of the least effective Test bowlers in the world when there's no spin and a part time spinner. I'd like to see how they look on anything resembling what 'normal' NZ test conditions should be.
It's irrelevant. Bangladesh of old would just roll over no matter what the conditions.
 

cnerd123

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They do on this road against two of the least effective Test bowlers in the world when there's no spin and a part time spinner. I'd like to see how they look on anything resembling what 'normal' NZ test conditions should be.
Again strange logic. NZ were torn apart in India on turning tracks. Failure to be competitive in conditions unsuited to them. Does that make them minnows as well?
 

AndyZaltzHair

Hall of Fame Member
We need more pacers before considered as threatening side. Our bench strength is simply not good enough when it comes to pace bowlers and that's why a bowler like Kamrul is still holding his place. It does not look too bad with Mustafiz and Shahid coming back but can't rely on them to be fit all the time.
 

OverratedSanity

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As is the norm on cw, this boring argument is dependent on how one defines a certain word, in this case 'minnow'. Lets just sit back and enjoy the scorecard, arguably the 2nd best involving NZ.
It's important though. People use "minnow" and "bad team" interchangeably these days, which is annoying. Bangladesh are still a pretty bad team but calling them a minnow implies they don't belong at this level, which clearly isn't true.
 

Zinzan

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As is the norm on cw, this boring argument is dependent on people having different opinions about cricket on a cricket forum. Lets just sit back and enjoy the scorecard, arguably the 2nd best involving NZ.
Fixed.
 

Daemon

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It's important though. People use "minnow" and "bad team" interchangeably these days, which is annoying. Bangladesh are still a pretty bad team but calling them a minnow implies they don't belong at this level, which clearly isn't true.
It's about as important as Shakib's 200 not being considered a 50, i.e. not very
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
We need more pacers before considered as threatening side. Our bench strength is simply not good enough when it comes to pace bowlers and that's why a bowler like Kamrul is still holding his place. It does not look too bad with Mustafiz and Shahid coming back but can't rely on them to be fit all the time.
I mean come on. Only a couple of international teams at one point have decent bench strength when it comes to fast bowlers. If at all.
 

Burgey

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Again strange logic. NZ were torn apart in India on turning tracks. Failure to be competitive in conditions unsuited to them. Does that make them minnows as well?
In their case, yes. The perennial Sri Lanka of the South Seas.
 

Zinzan

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Again strange logic. NZ were torn apart in India on turning tracks. Failure to be competitive in conditions unsuited to them. Does that make them minnows as well?
Lol, you're being disingenuous in pretending not to get the difference between Bangers and NZ/SL.

Look at NZ's record in the last 5 years or so, they've managed an away series win in the Windies,(which suits spinners), away 1-1 series draws in the UAE, SL & England in their last visits as well as home victories against India, Pakistan, WI, & SL.

Bangers have managed on Test win in their own backyard & didn't even win the series.

NZ were atrocious in India, against a very strong India side who also demolished England, but they did look terrible none the less, but teams don't become minnows overnight. But if NZ lose this series to Bangers and win just one home Test and lose everything else in the next 5 years, like Bangers have, then I'll 100% call us minnows.
 

Blocky

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Choking comes with territory of being a minnow sorry, even losing the odd game that you're in a strong position in.
So technically, NZ are still minnows, because the amount of times we've lost entire matches due to a session of choking in the past 12 months is horrifying.
 

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
So technically, NZ are still minnows, because the amount of times we've lost entire matches due to a session of choking in the past 12 months is horrifying.
If we apply that logic Pakistan are minnows too, and Australia and England might be as well.
 

Burgey

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Yeah look, Bangladesh are still minnows based on results. If winning one match against a top eight side is enough, then Ireland stopped being a minnow when they beat England in the ODI WC. You need more than that. But they aren't the hapless water buffaloes they used to be, and that's to their credit. You just have to hope they keep improving and don't end up plateauing at SL/ NZ levels of consistent, abject mediocrity.
 

cnerd123

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Lol, you're being disingenuous in pretending not to get the difference between Bangers and NZ/SL.

Look at NZ's record in the last 5 years or so, they've managed an away series win in the Windies,(which suits spinners), away 1-1 series draws in the UAE, SL & England in their last visits as well as home victories against India, Pakistan, WI, & SL.

Bangers have managed on Test win in their own backyard & didn't even win the series.

NZ were atrocious in India, against a very strong India side who also demolished England, but they did look terrible none the less, but teams don't become minnows overnight. But if NZ lose this series to Bangers and win just one home Test and lose everything else in the next 5 years, like Bangers have, then I'll 100% call us minnows.
Again I don't get how past performances determined the current quality of a team.

Sure you can take the last series or two into account, but the players in the team and the performance level of those players all change series to series, sometimes drastically.

By simply watching BD play in the last year or so, you can tell that all their batsmen are definitely Test quality, that their spinners are Test quality, and that they are competitive. They are definitely on par with WI and SL at the very least.

As OS says, you can't just write them off as 'minnows' and the other as 'bad test teams' when there is no discernible quality in their performances at the moment. Regardless of how they have played in the past and regardless of what their future holds in hypothetical cricket to be played in certain conditions.

I understand what you are saying, I just think it's not the way to be assessing a quality of the side unless all you have to go off are scoreboards. I'd get this kind of analysis for cricket back in the 1950s that we cannot watch, but not modern day cricket that's happening right in front of our eyes.
 

Zinzan

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So technically, NZ are still minnows, because the amount of times we've lost entire matches due to a session of choking in the past 12 months is horrifying.
They've been playing like it yes.

But seriously if people can't see the difference between Bangers & their 2 (i think they best the windies in 1 test match too IIRC) Test match wins and no series wins in the last 5 years & then want to say NZ must be the same because they've squandered some opportunities of late and have played poor test cricket in the last 12 months or so, then there's really not much else worth discussing.
 

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah look, Bangladesh are still minnows based on results. If winning one match against a top eight side is enough, then Ireland stopped being a minnow when they beat England in the ODI WC. You need more than that. But they aren't the hapless water buffaloes they used to be, and that's to their credit. You just have to hope they keep improving and don't end up plateauing at SL/ NZ levels of consistent, abject mediocrity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_cricket_team_in_Sri_Lanka_in_2016#Test_series
 

Zinzan

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Again I don't get how past performances determined the current quality of a team.


.
That's the difference, their history of results does count for me, & they need more than 1 home test win and one good innings total of a road for me to change that view.
 

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