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*Official* Bangladesh in New Zealand 2016/2017

Zinzan

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BD definitely stopped being ODI minnows around 2005-2007 fwiw. They were starting to win games more frequently, knocked India out the WC, and were showing genuine progress that had everyone hyped. Then they lost some players to the ICL, developed a choking streak, and regressed a bit before correcting themselves at around 2010. But they did shed the 'minnow' tag in ODIs during that time.
And their very competitive showing vs Australia in that Test I referred to in 2006? I mean I know they didn't quite win and probably squandered opportunities after being on top, but boy they were competitive, so they can't have been minnows back in 2006 after all right? Same logic.

Vettori would be happy to learn this fact retrospectively btw, because his cheap returns vs. Bangers in the mid/late 2000s were always kind of overlooked as being against a minnow.
 

Burgey

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I guess in that way, Australians and their cricket team are like a poor man's version of NZers and the All Blacks. We lost to Ireland for the first time ever last year (after about 111 years of playing them) and I'm still annoyed about it.
Probably a good parallel that.
 

Zinzan

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I'm sure NZ must have been whitewashed around 2006-2010 period in SL or they must have only played 2 tests and lost 2-0
Best they achieved was a 2-0 margin in 2009. Every other tour NZ have at the vert least drawn matches.
 

Zinzan

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While we're on minnow classification. it's always kind of irked me slightly that NZ have been minnow-like on several occasions in their Test history, yet overseas fans wouldn't dare want to remove some of their favourite players records against us, when we were genuinely 'minnow-like'.

There was a period around 1995 in particular when NZ were so bad they even lost to the other weakest side in the world around that time, Sri Lanka in their own backyard. Some of us are old enough to remember our disastrous centenary year.
 

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
While we're on minnow classification. it's always kind of irked me slightly that NZ have been minnow-like on several occasions in their Test history, yet overseas fans wouldn't dare want to remove some of their favourite players records against us, when we were genuinely 'minnow-like'.

There was a period around 1995 in particular when NZ were so bad they even lost to the other weakest side in the world around that time, Sri Lanka in their own backyard. Some of us are old enough to remember our disastrous centenary year.
Surprisingly we have never lost to Zimbabwe when India (twice) and Pakistan (three times) have. Zimbabwe had a pretty decent side in the mid to late 90s.
 

Zinzan

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Surprisingly we have never lost to Zimbabwe when India (twice) and Pakistan (three times) have. Zimbabwe had a pretty decent side in the mid to late 90s.
Actually, we always seemed to thrive in playing Zim & Bang, especially in the 2000s, and we were actually real minnow bashers for a time, while other sides like Pakistan & India would drop their bundles against weak opposition, our guys were at their best. Nobody better than Vettori when he sniffed a slightly sub-par batting line-up. Jeez did he used to carve up Bangers in particular, and on any pitches.
 
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Zinzan

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*****, still waiting for your answer on whether we should have removed the Test minnow tag from Bangers back in 2006, when they played such a competitive cricket Test against the then number 1 side in the world, Australia.
 

cnerd123

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And their very competitive showing vs Australia in that Test I referred to in 2006? I mean I know they didn't quite win and probably squandered opportunities after being on top, but boy they were competitive, so they can't have been minnows back in 2006 after all right? Same logic.
Nah not at all. I'll have to go rewatch that test to be sure (I was just a kid at the time), but I remember the general consensus being that Australia got off the plane and half-assed it for 3 days before going 'oh **** we're losing to BD', then regrouping and pummeling them. Fairly certain we dropped Ponting at some point in the second innings too, and that would essentially cost us the game, but BD didn't look before, during or after that match as a Test quality side. It was a lot like ZIm beating Pakistan recently - more to do with Australia being sloppy and BD being scrappy than the BD team genuinely being up to Test standard. It showed when they got stomped in the next Test. The personnel back then included players who were not Test quality - Javed Omar, Enamul Haq Jnr, Shahdat Hossain.

Nafees and Saleh were class but couldn't kick on for reasons I can't remember. I'll have to go back and rewatch them play to understand why.

Contrast the BD of then with the BD that played in the rained-out series vs SA, the two tests vs England, and the test here. They have looked genuinely competitive now. Surviving tough spells of bowling, bowling extremely well in phases, showing a high level of skill and good level of determination. They have been able to raise their game up to this level for quite a while in ODIs but it has been lacking in Tests. Now that they have shown they can do this in Tests, they're firmly no longer minnows.
 

cnerd123

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Also Vettori scored some very tough runs in the test series in BD, the one where he and Shakib dominated, and those do not deserve to be written off as 'minnow' runs.

Actually that series should have been the first sign of BD shaking off the minnow tag in Tests now that I think about it. They then beat Zim in Zim and beat the WI C side too. The XI was more or less what we saw now, and they pushed NZ really hard.
 

CM Punk

State Vice-Captain
If Bangladesh are minnows, we're definitely minnows then... they would butcher us in Bangladesh and they've been competitive in NZ so far in the Tests...

How far we've fallen, at least when we were bad a few years back we could still count on beating Bangladesh and ZImbabwe...

Now we lose matches to both sides and still get crushed against the top sides.

If Pakistan had a proper tour, they probably would have swept us 0-2 as well. We were fortunate that the Pakistani's rocked up to NZ poorly prepared.
 
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Zinzan

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Nah not at all. I'll have to go rewatch that test to be sure (I was just a kid at the time), but I remember the general consensus being that Australia got off the plane and half-assed it for 3 days before going 'oh **** we're losing to BD', then regrouping and pummeling them. Fairly certain we dropped Ponting at some point in the second innings too, and that would essentially cost us the game, but BD didn't look before, during or after that match as a Test quality side. It was a lot like ZIm beating Pakistan recently - more to do with Australia being sloppy and BD being scrappy than the BD team genuinely being up to Test standard. It showed when they got stomped in the next Test. The personnel back then included players who were not Test quality - Javed Omar, Enamul Haq Jnr, Shahdat Hossain.

Nafees and Saleh were class but couldn't kick on for reasons I can't remember. I'll have to go back and rewatch them play to understand why.

Contrast the BD of then with the BD that played in the rained-out series vs SA, the two tests vs England, and the test here. They have looked genuinely competitive now. Surviving tough spells of bowling, bowling extremely well in phases, showing a high level of skill and good level of determination. They have been able to raise their game up to this level for quite a while in ODIs but it has been lacking in Tests. Now that they have shown they can do this in Tests, they're firmly no longer minnows.
Sorry what exactly have they done away from home and against whom recently? Perhaps I missed something. All I've noticed if they have been competitive against non-SC sides in their own conditions, which tbf they've actually done for a while now, only this time they actually won a test, whilst drawing the series, as opposed to previously drawing series at home, as they did the last time NZ went there in about 2012 (i think it was).
 

The Hutt Rec

International Vice-Captain
There was a period around 1995 in particular when NZ were so bad they even lost to the other weakest side in the world around that time, Sri Lanka in their own backyard. Some of us are old enough to remember our disastrous centenary year.
And most of us who do have spent the last 20 years trying to forget it.
 

CM Punk

State Vice-Captain
Sorry what exactly have they done away from home and against whom recently? Perhaps I missed something. All I've noticed if they have been competitive against non-SC sides in their own conditions, which tbf they've actually done for a while now, only this time they actually won a test, whilst drawing the series, as opposed to previously drawing series at home, as they did the last time NZ went there in about 2012 (i think it was).
What on earth have we done away?

Smashed in Aus, smashed in SA and smashed in India... that too with our supposedly greatest ever side..

We'd probably get smashed in SL and Bangladesh too.
 
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cnerd123

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Sorry what exactly have they done away from home and against whom recently? Perhaps I missed something. All I've noticed if they have been competitive against non-SC sides in their own conditions, which tbf they've actually done for a while now, only this time they actually won a test, whilst drawing the series, as opposed to previously drawing series at home, as they did the last time NZ went there in about 2012 (i think it was).
You keep asking stuff like this and I keep asking you why it's relevant.

I've told you why it's not relevant. Evaluating their current standard of cricket does not require reflecting on past performance or speculating how they would perform in hypothetical future cricket. It's just about how they are playing in the current moment.

This is boring.


Anyways, out of curiosity I've decided to look back a bit. BD have shown glimpses of being competitive in Tests as far back as 2013, when they drew a series at home with NZ. But between then and the 2015 SA tour, they mixed in some impressive batting performances (Drawing games at home vs SL and Pak) with some really abject defeats (losing by an innings to SL, by 300+ runs to WI and Pak).

Their batting has been Test quality for some time now, just hit and miss. Only recently have they have found some bowling to support it.
 

Burgey

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Actually, we always seemed to thrive in playing Zim & Bang, especially in the 2000s, and we were actually real minnow bashers for a time, while other sides like Pakistan & India would drop their bundles against weak opposition, our guys were at their best. Nobody better than Vettori when he sniffed a slightly sub-par batting line-up. Jeez did he used to carve up Bangers in particular, and on any pitches.
You lifted agains tthe other minnows
 

Zinzan

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You keep asking stuff like this and I keep asking you why it's relevant.

I've told you why it's not relevant. Evaluating their current standard of cricket does not require reflecting on past performance or speculating how they would perform in hypothetical future cricket. It's just about how they are playing in the current moment.

This is boring.
.
Why is that irrelevant to ask? Because all we know is they've been more competitive at home in their last few tests, even though they haven't been a pushover for non SC sides in their own conditions for quite a while now.

Anyway, this is getting boring. I'll stick to my opinion of them until I see a little more than series draws at home vs. England and SA & you stick with your perception.
 

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