***Official*** Pakistan in Australia 2016/17

[Burgey]

#badcricketmemes

 

[Furball]

That is not actually what happened, though? What actually happened is that TJB got pissed 'cause of Blocky implying that the whole side gets constantly lucky, which tbh is a pretty fair reaction considering the inference. Then you came in blathering like an idiot and misinterpreting everything.

Not specific to this thread.

 

[uvelocity]

#badcricketmemes

 

[Zinzan]

That is not actually what happened, though? What actually happened is that TJB got pissed 'cause of Blocky implying that the whole side gets constantly lucky, which tbh is a pretty fair reaction considering the inference. Then you came in blathering like an idiot and misinterpreting everything.

Wrong, you need to read, my critiques of Smith were not the same as Blocky's were, I didn't claim the whole Australia team got lucky yesterday, what I did was respond to one of TJB's typically sarcastic comments, (this garbage to be specific) ......

Nah this innings doesn't count.

- Smith was a bit lucky
- Runs scored on Australian pitches are too easy and don't count, unless you're the touring side

correctly pointing out that Smith himself got lucky & then went on to play a great knock. This led TJB to throw his toys out of the cot, tarnishing us all with the same brush. I then went on to point out the rather obvious fact that Smith's lucky moments yesterday were basically Australia's lucky moments, after TJB said he wasn't talking about Smith.

Anyway, fortunately no other Australian posters appeared to misinterpret my comments, only yourself and TJB, hence why I said Shri's observation about Aussies becoming overly sensitive fan boys to any critiques of Smith is unfounded, It's only a couple of you

The fact I went on to say Smith and Root are probably tied as the best Test bats going around in another conversation should make it obvious where I stand about Smith in general.

DCYES - don't worry, just because he got lucky, doesn't mean everyone now thinks he's ****, really, it's really okay.

Let's leave it there now, I really don't think this thread deserves a **** fight because someone pointed out Smith had some lucky moments.

 

[Bijed]

In 2013, Courier Mail called Broad - Stuart Fraud for nicking and not walking. Glad they are setting an example for unbiased journalism by calling him Steve Cheat for doing the same.

The People's Cheat

 

[Furball]

tl;dr

 

[Crickettragic18]

The People's Cheat

The difference being there is only 1 person who thought Broad wasn't out, the Umpire. Pakistan didn't even appeal.

 

[Zinzan]

Not specific to this thread.

An honour coming from you. I don't think I'll ever quite match your widespread level in that respect though, as I've mentioned previously.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Haha, me a Steve Smith fanboy? Ask Jono if he thinks that is true.

 

[TNT]

Haha, me a Steve Smith fanboy? Ask Jono if he thinks that is true.

Jono it that true?.

 

[honestbharani]

Good to know Aus v Pak has drawn the largest non Ashes crowd at the venue. I assume it's a combination of the day/night and the fact that Pakistan have become an interesting team to watch...by interesting I mean competitive. Although I feel crowds might start dwindling if Pakistan can't mount a come back.

And of course this being the first DN test and close to Christmas which was never the case with the earlier Gabba tests has nothing to do with it? Its all Pakistan, sure.

 

[Blocky]

Blocky on Smith sounds decidedly like Richard on Trescothick, at this point.

I do enjoy how moderators inflame debate, then infract when the debate gets too hot for them.

Smith remains a guy who scores unbelievable amounts of runs in home conditions against attacks that suit him; he's been found out in trying conditions by bowling attacks that know how to attack him and if he batted most of his time in the conditions that Root or Williamson bat in at home, his average would be 45, not 58.

The only statistically significant sample he has outside of Australia is England where he averages 43.3, so the talk about him being as good away from home hasn't been proven yet. What he is tremendous at is making hundreds when he's set, something that at the moment seems to be out of the reach of Root, Williamson and Kohli. It boosts his average significantly, however, his runs to wins ratio is far worse than almost any other top Australian batsman since pre Border.

So fair play to the guy, he knows how to make it count when he's in, but he has the type of technique that will always see him struggle against the moving ball; he's been extremely fortunate that for the past two to three years, the batch of Kookaburra balls have simply not done as much as they used to, this is evident in the fact that swing demons like Starc, Southee, Boult are all struggling to make the thing move for longer than a few overs.

But if you're really assessing who the best batsman of those four are, let's see what happens when he has more than a few test series against the Duke.

 

[stephen]

Smith's break out series was South Africa in 2013/14, where he averaged 67. He averaged 56 in England in 2015.

You have to go back to before his prime in the 2013 Ashes to see a single series in which he averaged less than 40. In that series in England he averaged 38, two less than he did in the Australian series that year.

Of his overseas series since the South Africa tour he's averaged less than 50 in two series - one in the UAE and the other in Sri Lanka. Which is the same number of series he's averaged less than 50 in at home.

He performed better in NZ than he did at home against NZ.

I think, Blocky, you need to find a different horse to ride because the "Steve Smith is crap away from home and against quality bowling" horse is already glue.

Sure, he could just be going through a big purple patch but it's a purple patch that has largely been against strong sides and has been both in home and away series. He's not yet to be considered an all time great but if he keeps this up for a few more years he'll be thought of in the same way as Border or Waugh, if not Ponting.

 

[stephen]

In fact since that South Africa series, excluding the West Indies, he's averaged over 60 away and 80 at home. So yeah, maybe he is worse away. After all, averaging 60 away is total crap.

 

[stephen]

Taking the neutral tests into account his average drops to a measly 58.

We should drop him now.

 

[Blocky]

You're talking about a sample size of five innings, one of which was a not out, in South Africa. You don't seem to understand what statistical significance means.

You're also not taking into account that Adam Voges in the same period was Bradmanesque, that Khawaja (outside of Sri Lanka) has been Bradmanesque, that Warner has been as good as any Australian opener including Hayden in the modern era, that you've got Starc and Hazelwood performing as good as any young bowlers Australia has seen and yet you're still losing almost as many matches as you win since Ponting retired.

If he was as good as you make him out to be, Australia would be as dominant as they were when they had Ponting - or at the very least, draw a lot more of the games they lose.

 

[Coronis]

I do enjoy how moderators inflame debate, then infract when the debate gets too hot for them.

Smith remains a guy who scores unbelievable amounts of runs in home conditions against attacks that suit him; he's been found out in trying conditions by bowling attacks that know how to attack him and if he batted most of his time in the conditions that Root or Williamson bat in at home, his average would be 45, not 58.

The only statistically significant sample he has outside of Australia is England where he averages 43.3, so the talk about him being as good away from home hasn't been proven yet. What he is tremendous at is making hundreds when he's set, something that at the moment seems to be out of the reach of Root, Williamson and Kohli. It boosts his average significantly, however, his runs to wins ratio is far worse than almost any other top Australian batsman since pre Border.

So fair play to the guy, he knows how to make it count when he's in, but he has the type of technique that will always see him struggle against the moving ball; he's been extremely fortunate that for the past two to three years, the batch of Kookaburra balls have simply not done as much as they used to, this is evident in the fact that swing demons like Starc, Southee, Boult are all struggling to make the thing move for longer than a few overs.

But if you're really assessing who the best batsman of those four are, let's see what happens when he has more than a few test series against the Duke.

Yes, and considering how low quality the Australian teams have been since then, this is a huge surprise.

 

[Burgey]

Can we discount the small sample size of his recent series in SL as well then? Or the two tests he's played in India in 2013? Why are those samples statistically significant but he samples where he's played well aren't? It's a bit of an obsession you have going on here atm with regards him. I don't know why, other than that he averaged 131 in NZ and you've got the shits with him for that.

 

[stephen]

So now the goal posts have shifted.

The series in which Voges, Khawaja et.al. have done well in have been the same series that we've won. The matches where our batting has collapsed like a house of cards have been the ones we lost. Khawaja is class but hasn't exactly been consistent. Warner has been good for a couple of years in tests (though by no means great).

Take the two west indies series out of those players stats and then look at what they average in the same time frame that smith has been averaging 80 at home and 58 away.

Incidentally, if a team is losing in spite of one batsman making mountains of runs it says a lot more about the team than the player. Unless you also think that Lara was a downhill skier.

 

[Blocky]

Yes, and considering how low quality the Australian teams have been since then, this is a huge surprise.

Low quality? You have had several guys score unbelievable amounts of runs in the past few years, as you've also had Haze and Starc tearing up as bowlers. The only factor is that your batting isn't as good when it counts against quality seam attacks and admittedly, you don't have Warne.