***Official*** England in India 2016/17

[Groundking]

Cook at 3? Interesting and not without merit. I guess if Hameed/Jennings is viewed as our opening pair for the future, it's worth getting a look in now.

Plus it protects him a little bit more from the new ball, and considering his struggles last time out in Australia, it'll be a good thing next winter. Plus your best bats should play no. 3 and 4, with 4 being your more expressive bat, so that fits perfectly with Cook @ 3 and Root @ 4.

Your post yesterday led me to believe you were firmly in favour of the seam attack and sticking to the teams strengths and yet you want to play Rashid and Ali in the same team at home. It seems counterproductive to me and a luxury England can't afford to have.

Personally I see playing Rashid and Ali as an option on certain grounds, but certainly not a default position that England should be taking at home (or in Australia where we tour next).

How many runs do they have to get plundered for before people stop wanting England to pick two spinners at home.

Pick the best option for the team which should primarily be based on whoever is the best spinner out of Ali or Moeen and get on with it.


Much better imo is we pick an extra batsman or wicketkeeper or even play five seamers (but with variation involved, left arm, or extreme pace), rather than pick two average spinners because they can bat a bit as well.





*Maybe you could select both if Moeen was in your best 5 batsmen and Rashid was your best spinner but imo Moeen averaging 33 isn't a top order bat and Rashid v Ali is debeatable on purely spin bowling.

Moeen has contributed with vital nocks for the team and averages 43 for the year, significantly better than what every other player we've brought into the side has managed since Trott, Peterson and Bell have managed, other than a brief spell from Ballance, and obviously Root. We're already changing the captain and trying to get 2 new players settled in and established at the top of the order, let's not rock the whole boat by weakening our strength over the past 12 months which has been Stokes/Bairstow/Moeen as our middle order.

I'd pick Rashid simply because I think it's now obvious that Moeen isn't improving as a spin option, and I think he deserves a chance to fall on his own sword whilst we have the luxury of Stoke and Bairstow who can both bat top 6, and we can pick a 6 man bowling attack, then in 12 months or so, if Jennings/Hameed have worked out at the top of the order and our batting is looking more stable and with less question marks then we can look at the Rashid/Moeen question again, but let's not change everything at once, as it rarely works and I doubt it'll work for Australia this time out.

 

[Gob]

Interesting that England are beginning to go down the road of #Intent just as Australia are beginning to come out of it, imo.

You'll see plenty of intent in three months time

 

[wpdavid]

This series has pretty much gone down how most expected. We're aware of the flaws in our team, namely a fragile top order with an over-reliance on the lower-middle order and substandard spin bowlers, which is emphasised by playing on these flat surfaces that aid spin somewhat. The biggest plus has been the emergence of Hameed and Jennings, who have both produced innings of substance. Even Rashid has done better than we'd hoped. But these have been marginal gains in the scheme of our team's output, which was never going to be enough to compete in the series.

It's a shame but there's absolutely no need for a thorough review or some sort of shake-up of the system. We just need to continue with these marginal gains. Cook quits the captaincy on his own terms as far as I'm concerned.

This is probably a fair assessment. If you'd offed me two potential additions to our top 3 at the start of the tour I'd have taken your hand off, even if I'm getting a bit ahead of myself with a couple of of kids who will need to overcome very different challenges against SA in our summer before we even consider how they might go in Australia next winter.

The result was always likely to be what we've seen since the first test, even if it isn't fun seeing our boys massively outclassed. Quite why our catching is so abysmal is anyone's guess, and it has definitely cost us at times.

As for Cook, I did ponder yesterday whether his performance in this test should be a sacking offence. As part of a bigger picture, I still think it's a fair question. This has been pretty dire - you don't use your bowlers in a way that is completely contrary to how the side was selected and then wonder why your side is on the wrong end of a right royal stuffing. There are other criticisms of the culture of the side that probably belong in a separate thread. I suppose it comes down to how I feel about dumping the job on Root at this stage of his career.

 

[Adders]

As for Cook, I did ponder yesterday whether his performance in this test should be a sacking offence. As part of a bigger picture, I still think it's a fair question. This has been pretty dire - you don't use your bowlers in a way that is completely contrary to how the side was selected and then wonder why your side is on the wrong end of a right royal stuffing. There are other criticisms of the culture of the side that probably belong in a separate thread. I suppose it comes down to how I feel about dumping the job on Root at this stage of his career.

Yeah, I've got very mixed feelings about all of this.

We've certainly seen the good, the bad and the ugly from Cook as skip during his tenure......but this test was very ordinary from him and I do sense he's just had enough of the job now. On the one hand I'd love for him to step down on his own terms and concentrate solely on his batting, but on the other I really do have grave concerns about lumping the job on Root right now.

 

[Jono]

Stay classy Jimmy

 

[Pothas]

Expect he will step down after the ashes, regardless of the result. No way he will be sacked before then.

 

[Compton]

Not sure there's much need for England to have Anderson, Broad, Woakes, Stokes, Moeen, and Rashid all available as bowling options in a home test match. Particularly with Root and Jennings both capable of chucking down a few when required.

Drop Rashid for Buttler to give some more batting. Bring Rashid in for the odd pitch that actually turns.

 

[centurymaker]

Lol Clouderson, graceful as always in defeat. Can't wait to see him complain to the umpire tomorrow and mutter under his hand like a ****ing coward in the next test when he bowls.

The sore loser is speaking rubbish after another horror performance with the ball.
He couldn't even swing the ball and is speaking of flaws in others.. while at the same time Bhuvi was moving it around considerably.
Anderson is all but finished in 'foreign' conditions, plenty of bowlers better than him, even in his own team.

 

[centurymaker]

England spinners ftr haven't bowled that bad. They have been okay in fact, and from time to time they bowl only as many release balls as Ashwin & Jadega. The main difference is that the Indian spinners get more off the surface but they too bowl enough poor balls..

 

[Athlai]

A **** will always be a ****.


Home pitches hide Virat Kohli 'flaws' - James Anderson | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo


Its one thing to be cheeky and make pertinent points. This is at Gambhir levels of "come to India and you will see" Such an utter **** person he is.


EDIT: Saw his interview to Sky Sports and Ian WArd just now. Its not really that bad as Dobell seems to have picked and chosen certain sentences he said a bit out of context really. My apologies to Anderson and the CW England fans here. Leaving what I originally posted on to ensure I taste it hard. He was actually being pretty honest there and guess he does (and IMO wrongly) believe that they can counter Kohli much easier in those conditions. But most things he said there were fair enough and I dont think he mentioned anything about Ashwin and Jadeja the way Dobell has put it. What a **** Dobell is if this interview is what he is using to write this story.

Love it.

 

[listento_me]

England spinners ftr haven't bowled that bad. They have been okay in fact, and from time to time they bowl only as many release balls as Ashwin & Jadega. The main difference is that the Indian spinners get more off the surface but they too bowl enough poor balls..

Another factor is that Indian batsmen havent made anywhere near the numbers of mistakes their English counterparts have. None of the wickets have been wild turners but too often the batsmen have looked in a daze. There's not much between Rashid and Ashwin (Ash has the better avg, Rashid the better sr) but the situation in which the wickets have occurred is a major issue.

 

[listento_me]

England spinners ftr haven't bowled that bad. They have been okay in fact, and from time to time they bowl only as many release balls as Ashwin & Jadega. The main difference is that the Indian spinners get more off the surface but they too bowl enough poor balls..

Another factor is that Indian batsmen havent made anywhere near the numbers of mistakes their English counterparts have. None of the wickets have been wild turners but too often the batsmen have looked in a daze. There's not much between Rashid and Ashwin (Ash has the better avg, Rashid the better sr) but the situation in which the wickets have occurred is a major issue.

 

[hazsa19]

This series has pretty much gone down how most expected. We're aware of the flaws in our team, namely a fragile top order with an over-reliance on the lower-middle order and substandard spin bowlers, which is emphasised by playing on these flat surfaces that aid spin somewhat. The biggest plus has been the emergence of Hameed and Jennings, who have both produced innings of substance. Even Rashid has done better than we'd hoped. But these have been marginal gains in the scheme of our team's output, which was never going to be enough to compete in the series.

It's a shame but there's absolutely no need for a thorough review or some sort of shake-up of the system. We just need to continue with these marginal gains. Cook quits the captaincy on his own terms as far as I'm concerned.

I clearly don't agree with Spark. i don't think we've actually competed since the first Test. When it's mattered we've been dominated, which has resulted in big losses. However, the potential of Hameed and Jennings to play at this level is encouraging (won't get any more carried away than that).

I'm not convinced of what Bayliss has actually done for the Test team. If I remember rightly when he took over we were poor in the field, and weak up front in the batting, has anything really changed? Obviously he'll be given some more time and will probably be judged on the SA/ Ashes series.

 

[Bijed]

I'm not convinced of what Bayliss has actually done for the Test team. If I remember rightly when he took over we were poor in the field, and weak up front in the batting, has anything really changed? Obviously he'll be given some more time and will probably be judged on the SA/ Ashes series.

I agree that these are still problem areas for us, but my perception is that we've been a better team since Bayliss took over. How much of that is actually because of him, I don't know - to use a very specific example, I have no idea if Bairstow's improvement as a test batsman is related to Bayliss' influence or purely other factors.

 

[Scaly piscine]

The spinners England have picked just simply aren't good enough. Whilst you don't expect them to beat India's spinners, you have to try and pick your best and hope they can match them and you get backed up by the rest of the side.

Lets look at it this way, if India toured England would us English be worried if they picked the likes of Pathan and Binny? Of course not. England have done the equivalent in India. Spinners in this series have been seamers in England. It is nothing short of a farce that our best spinners in County Cricket are in UAE with the Lions. Spin bowling is too big a part of these matches to weight bits and pieces players as anywhere near as important as bowling quality.

To not have at least tried the two best options from County Cricket pisses me off no end.

 

[Jono]

A **** will always be a ****.


Home pitches hide Virat Kohli 'flaws' - James Anderson | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo


Its one thing to be cheeky and make pertinent points. This is at Gambhir levels of "come to India and you will see" Such an utter **** person he is.


EDIT: Saw his interview to Sky Sports and Ian WArd just now. Its not really that bad as Dobell seems to have picked and chosen certain sentences he said a bit out of context really. My apologies to Anderson and the CW England fans here. Leaving what I originally posted on to ensure I taste it hard. He was actually being pretty honest there and guess he does (and IMO wrongly) believe that they can counter Kohli much easier in those conditions. But most things he said there were fair enough and I dont think he mentioned anything about Ashwin and Jadeja the way Dobell has put it. What a **** Dobell is if this interview is what he is using to write this story.

What I love about this is that all the crap Kohli (rightfully) got about saying to Warner "wait til you come to India" applies to Anderson here. Its such a defeatist attitude, no wonder he hasn't taken a test wicket in a long time.

Its lame too because he's actually good on these pitches usually. He's mentally cooked obviously.

 

[Compton]

Nah I'm not having it. England's spinners have been poor.

Moeen & Rashid 6-366
Ashwin & Jadeja 10-221

Not to mention Root managed to take the same number of wickets as Moeen in under a fifth of the overs; and did so with a better average and economy than either Moeen or Rashid.

 

[social]

I didnt see much of the Indian innings but given what I saw of England, it's fair to say that Kohli etc must have been brilliant whilst the English spinners must have been dire

 

[social]

Nah I'm not having it. England's spinners have been poor.

Moeen & Rashid 6-366
Ashwin & Jadeja 10-221

Not to mention Root managed to take the same number of wickets as Moeen in under a fifth of the overs; and did so with a better average and economy than either Moeen or Rashid.

You only had to see how much the Indian spinners got the ball to turn and bounce to know the English were poor as the pitch didnt suddenly morph into a minefield between innings

 

[Burgey]

What I love about this is that all the crap Kohli (rightfully) got about saying to Warner "wait til you come to India" applies to Anderson here. Its such a defeatist attitude, no wonder he hasn't taken a test wicket in a long time.

Its lame too because he's actually good on these pitches usually. He's mentally cooked obviously.

He's always been a bit of an ornery prick.