***Official*** England in India 2016/17

[indiaholic]

Then you would find it difficult to praise India's batting too? We got easy conditions and faced spinners who are way worse than ours?

 

[OverratedSanity]

But most of it are down to the pitches AFAIC. All of them have been really good for batting, either defensive batting or attacking batting but it has never really been a complete bowler dominating kinda wicket yet in this series. The scores reflect that part of it more than any special batting ability from England, AFAIC. To put this in perspective, if you give these tracks to the RSA side that came here, I see the exact same results happening. Their batting good enough to post decent-ish totals but collapsing at key moments due to scoreboard pressure, sustained brilliant spin bowling etc. And their spinners basically being toothless to restrict our batting.

I dunno, SA collapsed on a pretty flat deck in Bangalore. They were mentally shot. That's the thing that's impressive to me, despite being constantly under the pump and being beaten convincingly twice, England have not caved in like many teams do on an overseas series, like SA last year or India in England a couple of years ago.

Their spinners have been pretty poor though yeah. And that's probably been the difference, not the batting,imo.

 

[honestbharani]

I dunno, SA collapsed on a pretty flat deck in Bangalore. They were mentally shot. That's the thing that's impressive to me, despite being constantly under the pump and being beaten convincingly twice, England have not caved in like many teams do on an overseas series, like SA last year or India in England a couple of years ago.

Their spinners have been pretty poor though yeah. And that's probably been the difference, not the batting,imo.

Well, yes but maybe if RSA got the Rajkot track first up and won the toss, maybe they wont have been mentally shot. Or conversely if Cook and Co. had gotten that Mohali track and lost the toss, they would have been mentally shot as well. Its easier to just call the games based on how they have actually been played IMO than look for psychological impact and how they were feeling during those games coz then you can never really compare anyone ever. To me, the RSA side that came here and this England side are not really that far apart and just goes to show how the pitches can impact a series between roughly similar sides.

 

[honestbharani]

Then you would find it difficult to praise India's batting too? We got easy conditions and faced spinners who are way worse than ours?

I haven't gone gaga about any of our batting performances if you notice this thread. I was very confident in Rajkot that our guys will respond with a big score and since then it has been very good batting in batting friendly conditions. And a large part of batting is keeping out the good balls. Yes, the England spinners have bowled release balls but they have also bowled good balls. Our batsmen have been good enough to not get out to them as often as the English batsmen have. There are various ways you get out. Sometimes you handle the good balls with better technique and competence than the opposition batsmen, sometimes the opposition batsmen try to do something off good balls coz there are no bad balls coming their way anyways. AFAIC, in this series, England have often bowled well in patches to threaten India, and this includes their spinners, but overall India have just been better batsmen. And these innings deserve praise as much as any of our home performances IMO. We were not underselling what Tendulkar, Dravid and Co. did in those days either, did we?

 

[cnerd123]

From what I saw today these were not 'easy' conditions. Kohli and Jayant batted extremely well, and Jadeja and Ashwin just get so much more out of the pitch to the point where it goes from 'difficult' to 'umplayable'

 

[vcs]

I was never totally convinced by the SA series win. We did what was needed, but in the first and third Tests, it was disconcerting that we were giving wickets so easily to Tahir, Elgar, Harmer etc. who are no world beaters. This series has erased a lot of my doubts.

Also, we played an SA missing Steyn, Philander and De Kock (an obvious selection in hindsight). Woefully out of form Du Plessis and Amla. The stars kind of aligned for us to win that series so convincingly, but it didn't prove all that much to me.

 

[honestbharani]

@***** - Yeah.. it gets progressively tougher to bat on for sure. But its still easier than some of the conditions these guys faced during the RSA series as well as the SL series or even the one off test in Bangladesh. Those were extremely tough to bat on coz even if you are in, there was always a chance that something was gonna happen off the pitch that can defeat you. These pitches have been far more reliable and predictable.

 

[honestbharani]

I was never totally convinced by the SA series win. We did what was needed, but in the first and third Tests, it was disconcerting that we were giving wickets so easily to Tahir, Elgar, Harmer etc. who are no world beaters. This series has erased a lot of my doubts.

Also, we played an SA missing Steyn, Philander and De Kock (an obvious selection in hindsight). Woefully out of form Du Plessis and Amla. The stars kind of aligned for us to win that series so convincingly, but it didn't prove all that much to me.

Exactly my point. AFAIC, all 3 teams so far this season have competed really well. It just seems like England have done better coz of the pitches but IMO, both RSA and NZ would have competed just as well had they gotten the same pitches. It has been a good grind for India this home season, definitely a far cry from the days of the 90s when teams came and just **** themselves at the sight of our spinners. That is why I feel we can be better than we have ever been as a team if this core can fulfill their potential.

 

[vcs]

Apparently Jayant Yadav is Yogendra Yadav's nephew.

 

[honestbharani]

Geoffrey Boycott compares Virat Kohli's smooth footwork to milk chocolate


Sir Geoffrey thinks his batting reminds of him of The Prince of Trinidad. Ian Chappell mentioned something similar with respect to his placement too. And yeah, if he keeps up this form against spin, every reason why he can be this generation's Lara, esp. because he has basically been denying himself the big sixes, not that he can't hit them. So once he starts mixing it all up, good luck bowlers.

 

[Bijed]

I'd swap Cook and Jennings around, and Stokes and Bairstow around, and then I'd agree that's our best team IMO.

Cook at 3? Interesting and not without merit. I guess if Hameed/Jennings is viewed as our opening pair for the future, it's worth getting a look in now.

 

[harsh.ag]

I just want Cook to look less sad.

 

[MW1304]

I just don't see the point of reading too deeply into England's failure to do what no one else has come even vaguely close to doing recently, especially when England have made a seriously good go at it compared to some other sides and there are clear positives that can be taken from the series thus far. England have weaknesses, sure, and they have been ruthlessly exploited by a side in serious nick, but I don't see how you can call England a side on the slide from this.

This series has pretty much gone down how most expected. We're aware of the flaws in our team, namely a fragile top order with an over-reliance on the lower-middle order and substandard spin bowlers, which is emphasised by playing on these flat surfaces that aid spin somewhat. The biggest plus has been the emergence of Hameed and Jennings, who have both produced innings of substance. Even Rashid has done better than we'd hoped. But these have been marginal gains in the scheme of our team's output, which was never going to be enough to compete in the series.

It's a shame but there's absolutely no need for a thorough review or some sort of shake-up of the system. We just need to continue with these marginal gains. Cook quits the captaincy on his own terms as far as I'm concerned.

 

[honestbharani]

A **** will always be a ****.


Home pitches hide Virat Kohli 'flaws' - James Anderson | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo


Its one thing to be cheeky and make pertinent points. This is at Gambhir levels of "come to India and you will see" Such an utter **** person he is.


EDIT: Saw his interview to Sky Sports and Ian WArd just now. Its not really that bad as Dobell seems to have picked and chosen certain sentences he said a bit out of context really. My apologies to Anderson and the CW England fans here. Leaving what I originally posted on to ensure I taste it hard. He was actually being pretty honest there and guess he does (and IMO wrongly) believe that they can counter Kohli much easier in those conditions. But most things he said there were fair enough and I dont think he mentioned anything about Ashwin and Jadeja the way Dobell has put it. What a **** Dobell is if this interview is what he is using to write this story.

 

[Bijed]

I just want Cook to look less sad.

Yeah, it can be pretty heartbreaking seeing some of our guys in obvious distress when they're struggling

 

[Shri]

A **** will always be a ****.


Home pitches hide Virat Kohli 'flaws' - James Anderson | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo


Its one thing to be cheeky and make pertinent points. This is at Gambhir levels of "come to India and you will see" Such an utter **** person he is.


EDIT: Saw his interview to Sky Sports and Ian WArd just now. Its not really that bad as Dobell seems to have picked and chosen certain sentences he said a bit out of context really. My apologies to Anderson and the CW England fans here. Leaving what I originally posted on to ensure I taste it hard. He was actually being pretty honest there and guess he does (and IMO wrongly) believe that they can counter Kohli much easier in those conditions. But most things he said there were fair enough and I dont think he mentioned anything about Ashwin and Jadeja the way Dobell has put it. What a **** Dobell is if this interview is what he is using to write this story.

Lol Clouderson, graceful as always in defeat. Can't wait to see him complain to the umpire tomorrow and mutter under his hand like a ****ing coward in the next test when he bowls.

 

[theegyptian]

I'd swap Cook and Jennings around, and Stokes and Bairstow around, and then I'd agree that's our best team IMO.

Your post yesterday led me to believe you were firmly in favour of the seam attack and sticking to the teams strengths and yet you want to play Rashid and Ali in the same team at home. It seems counterproductive to me and a luxury England can't afford to have.

Personally I see playing Rashid and Ali as an option on certain grounds, but certainly not a default position that England should be taking at home (or in Australia where we tour next).

How many runs do they have to get plundered for before people stop wanting England to pick two spinners at home.

Pick the best option for the team which should primarily be based on whoever is the best spinner out of Ali or Moeen and get on with it.


Much better imo is we pick an extra batsman or wicketkeeper or even play five seamers (but with variation involved, left arm, or extreme pace), rather than pick two average spinners because they can bat a bit as well.





*Maybe you could select both if Moeen was in your best 5 batsmen and Rashid was your best spinner but imo Moeen averaging 33 isn't a top order bat and Rashid v Ali is debeatable on purely spin bowling.

 

[Teja.]

This weeks friendly reminder that Vampire James has an away average of 33.4 and will probably retire with it even higher.

It makes sense for him to know a lot about conditions hiding one's flaws.

 

[honestbharani]

This is the interview with Anderson I saw. Around the 6 min mark it starts. Watch and decide for yourselves I guess, unless he said something very different in another interview or presser to Dobell.

 

[Shri]

Interesting that England are beginning to go down the road of #Intent just as Australia are beginning to come out of it, imo.