***Official*** England in India 2016/17

[honestbharani]

He seems to play far more aggressive than he needs to.. more often than not (it's happened pretty much all series), and thus there's always an element of risk in his approach and so it's bound to affect his conversion. On the flip side he always has a quick 50 60 70 next to his name.
Has to learn a bit from Kohli - how he has cut-out a lot of the unnecessary or risky play from his batting, which has helped him convert the small 110s 120s into big hundreds & 200s!

I hardly ever see Root playing out a maiden, always wanting to score, at the expense of giving his wicket away and also not focusing as much on his defensive or technical side of things. Perhaps his attack is his defense.

Sign of a shrewd cricket mind, tbh. For all the talking up he gets about his technique, he is honestly no KW. What he does well, esp. away from home, seems to be in somehow working out the best way to survive without having to block all the time as he really does not have the defense to do it successfully. And with some of the numbers he has achieved already, he knows he will be looked at as a danger batsman and uses that to his advantage as well. Something Stokes is also trying to emulate and I think will crack it reasonably soon. Another reason why I think England should not give in to temptation and try and make Root,Stokes,Bairstow their #3,4,5 permanently. And use Stokes as a batsman who bowls and maybe use him in random 4 over bursts once a session but get him to continue his development as a batsman. Guy has a huge ceiling.

 

[centurymaker]

60-70 lead by Lunch, bat for another 20 overs and lead may reach 140+ with 40 overs left and then you never know...
First session is crucial, especially if it's once again relatively better for batting.

 

[Jono]

Howe please provide update of Stokes vs. Ashwin dismissals against each other like you were doing earlier.

 

[Spark]

That's the attitude

I just don't see the point of reading too deeply into England's failure to do what no one else has come even vaguely close to doing recently, especially when England have made a seriously good go at it compared to some other sides and there are clear positives that can be taken from the series thus far. England have weaknesses, sure, and they have been ruthlessly exploited by a side in serious nick, but I don't see how you can call England a side on the slide from this.

 

[mackembhoy]

Ashwin will bowl poorer than this and get 5-ers. Has probably happened in the past TBF.

Aye Vizag. Most of his wickets were gifts and one wasn't even out.

 

[Bijed]

Not trying to excuse his often very avoidable dismissals, but I do feel Root has been to an extent hampered more than some others by the contexts in which he's had to bat, especially now he's at 3. He often comes in with the momentum against England and is good at changing that, though it does sometimes backfire and he'll get himself out cheaply. It's a problem in itself that once he's made his pretty counter-attack, he doesn't always seem to be able to adjust his mindset to consolidate and go on to make a really big score. Basically, if he had more consistent support from those around him, he'd probably not feel that he needs to do all the heavy-lifting himself, so to speak, and probably start making bigger scores as a result. I know it's a small sample size and I've probably let them affect my thinking on the matter too much, but a couple of times recently when England have made a reasonable, if unspectacular, start and/or Root's had good support and we're basically not behind in the game would be:

2nd test vs Pakistan
1st test this series

I.e. he converted both times - 124 is of course not a massive score, but apparently about as high as you could get that match.

At the end of the day, though, there's no reason he couldn't do this more often in all situations - he and the coaches need to work on that. Maybe making him captain will give him the focus he needs?

 

[honestbharani]

Aye Vizag. Most of his wickets were gifts and one wasn't even out.

 

[honestbharani]

Not trying to excuse his often very avoidable dismissals, but I do feel Root has been to an extent hampered more than some others by the contexts in which he's had to bat, especially now he's at 3. He often comes in with the momentum against England and is good at changing that, though it does sometimes backfire and he'll get himself out cheaply. It's a problem in itself that once he's made his pretty counter-attack, he doesn't always seem to be able to adjust his mindset to consolidate and go on to make a really big score. Basically, if he had more consistent support from those around him, he'd probably not feel that he needs to do all the heavy-lifting himself, so to speak, and probably start making bigger scores as a result. I know it's a small sample size and I've probably let them affect my thinking on the matter too much, but a couple of times recently when England have made a reasonable, if unspectacular, start and/or Root's had good support and we're basically not behind in the game would be:

2nd test vs Pakistan
1st test this series

I.e. he converted both times - 124 is of course not a massive score, but apparently about as high as you could get that match.

At the end of the day, though, there's no reason he couldn't do this more often in all situations - he and the coaches need to work on that. Maybe making him captain will give him the focus he needs?

Assuming England lose this match and lose the series 3-0 (Chennai Test may be rain affected) and Cook gives up the captaincy. Do we see this being the side for England when they line up in June, assuming form and fitness (and behaviour ) holds up?


Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root (c)
Stokes
Bairstow (wk)
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson


Just looks a lot more balanced and with Ali at 7 playing more as a batting all rounder, he will get his wish fulfilled as well.

 

[Jono]

Bairstow is a gun. Having both him and Kock in world cricket is pretty good.

 

[Bijed]

Assuming England lose this match and lose the series 3-0 (Chennai Test may be rain affected) and Cook gives up the captaincy. Do we see this being the side for England when they line up in June, assuming form and fitness (and behaviour ) holds up?


Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root (c)
Stokes
Bairstow (wk)
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson


Just looks a lot more balanced and with Ali at 7 playing more as a batting all rounder, he will get his wish fulfilled as well.

Exactly the side I'd go with. Only potential change may be if Buttler continues to well, could see him displacing Ali/Rashid (not as a like-for-like replacement, obviously). Which of the two would depend on whether Rashid is viewed as a good choice for the home summer. Problem is if they go with Buttler/Ali, one of them would have to be at 8 which is not ideal for either of them.

 

[centurymaker]

Win the toss win the match theory has been exposed once again ftr, although it does provide some advantage as you get to dictate the game by batting first (in somewhat better conditions).

 

[Bijed]

Has provided sterling evidence for the 'play India in India and lose' theory, though.

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah.. one thing though is that Mumbai wicket always makes it seem like it is more difficult to bat on than it actually is. One of the key reasons for that is how fast scoring this ground can be for a batsman. So if you spend 50 balls or so here you should be well on your way with 30 or more on the board. So teams winning the toss and batting first (India in 2012, England now) kinda start overrating the assistance the pitch is giving bowlers and start settling for scores in the 350-400 range. When just about everyone here at CW and almost all personnel involved with cricket (media, twitter and the teams themselves) kept saying 400 was above par, I was trying to nicely state that it was really not par at all. Maybe just about par if you bowl well and got good spinners but otherwise, I would have said 450 was par.

The reason is, while the bowlers always get assistance, because there is nothing very unpredictable about the pitch and because of the pace and bounce of the pitch and the lush outfield and smallish boundaries, batsmen can get on a roll very very quickly here. The other thing that happens is, bowlers can get overexcited by all the turn and bounce and swing and can start bowling trying to get a wicket every ball. So a good aggressive batsman can easily take the game away at such moments, like KP did in 2012 and Virat and Jadeja did just when there was a bit of a collapse from the Indian middle order. And before you know it, the fielding captain is chasing the game again. Its just a wonderful venue that shows why perception tends to be so much more flawed than reality at times when it comes to cricket.

 

[indiaholic]

Not trying to excuse his often very avoidable dismissals, but I do feel Root has been to an extent hampered more than some others by the contexts in which he's had to bat, especially now he's at 3. He often comes in with the momentum against England and is good at changing that, though it does sometimes backfire and he'll get himself out cheaply. It's a problem in itself that once he's made his pretty counter-attack, he doesn't always seem to be able to adjust his mindset to consolidate and go on to make a really big score. Basically, if he had more consistent support from those around him, he'd probably not feel that he needs to do all the heavy-lifting himself, so to speak, and probably start making bigger scores as a result. I know it's a small sample size and I've probably let them affect my thinking on the matter too much, but a couple of times recently when England have made a reasonable, if unspectacular, start and/or Root's had good support and we're basically not behind in the game would be:

2nd test vs Pakistan
1st test this series

I.e. he converted both times - 124 is of course not a massive score, but apparently about as high as you could get that match.

At the end of the day, though, there's no reason he couldn't do this more often in all situations - he and the coaches need to work on that. Maybe making him captain will give him the focus he needs?

I don't think he trusts his defense enough in India. Add the fact that he knows he has enough options to counterattack against practically everybody. This doesn't work as a long term strategy for success.. He needs to work on his footwork so that he is truly comfortable against high quality spin. Would be surprised if he doesn't look super comfortable the next time he tours.

 

[Groundking]

Assuming England lose this match and lose the series 3-0 (Chennai Test may be rain affected) and Cook gives up the captaincy. Do we see this being the side for England when they line up in June, assuming form and fitness (and behaviour ) holds up?


Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root (c)
Stokes
Bairstow (wk)
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson


Just looks a lot more balanced and with Ali at 7 playing more as a batting all rounder, he will get his wish fulfilled as well.

I'd swap Cook and Jennings around, and Stokes and Bairstow around, and then I'd agree that's our best team IMO.

 

[Pothas]

Exactly the side I'd go with. Only potential change may be if Buttler continues to well, could see him displacing Ali/Rashid (not as a like-for-like replacement, obviously). Which of the two would depend on whether Rashid is viewed as a good choice for the home summer. Problem is if they go with Buttler/Ali, one of them would have to be at 8 which is not ideal for either of them.

Yeah it looks a it looks a lot more like a normal sort of side. I think Rashid has earned a go as lead spinner, still love Moeen but might be edging towards Buttler, who would take the gloves, with Bairstow at 5. It is a long way away though so who knows. Be good to get the Anderson, Broad, Woakes and Stokes pace attack though, they have not actually managed to play together much at all.

 

[Heboric]

I just don't see the point of reading too deeply into England's failure to do what no one else has come even vaguely close to doing recently, especially when England have made a seriously good go at it compared to some other sides and there are clear positives that can be taken from the series thus far. England have weaknesses, sure, and they have been ruthlessly exploited by a side in serious nick, but I don't see how you can call England a side on the slide from this.

Yeah, but England shouldnt be losing test matches against Bangladesh, even if Bangladesh has improved a bit.

 

[OverratedSanity]

He seems to play far more aggressive than he needs to.. more often than not (it's happened pretty much all series), and thus there's always an element of risk in his approach and so it's bound to affect his conversion. On the flip side he always has a quick 50 60 70 next to his name.
Has to learn a bit from Kohli - how he has cut-out a lot of the unnecessary or risky play from his batting, which has helped him convert the small 110s 120s into big hundreds & 200s!

Funny, this is exactly the criticism Kohli was receiving until a few months ago.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I just don't see the point of reading too deeply into England's failure to do what no one else has come even vaguely close to doing recently, especially when England have made a seriously good go at it compared to some other sides and there are clear positives that can be taken from the series thus far. England have weaknesses, sure, and they have been ruthlessly exploited by a side in serious nick, but I don't see how you can call England a side on the slide from this.

Yeah, atleast batting wise, I think England have been perfectly good. They've put us under pressure with some very good, though apart from Rajkot, not huge totals and generally haven't crumbled completely at all. They've had some mini-collapses, which you usually get in these conditions, but generally speaking, their lineup has produced the goods.

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah, atleast batting wise, I think England have been perfectly good. They've put us under pressure with some very good, though apart from Rajkot, not huge totals and generally haven't crumbled completely at all. They've had some mini-collapses, which you usually get in these conditions, but generally speaking, their lineup has produced the goods.

But most of it are down to the pitches AFAIC. All of them have been really good for batting, either defensive batting or attacking batting but it has never really been a complete bowler dominating kinda wicket yet in this series. The scores reflect that part of it more than any special batting ability from England, AFAIC. To put this in perspective, if you give these tracks to the RSA side that came here, I see the exact same results happening. Their batting good enough to post decent-ish totals but collapsing at key moments due to scoreboard pressure, sustained brilliant spin bowling etc. And their spinners basically being toothless to restrict our batting.