Wastemen etc

[Red]

I wish he'd been one era earlier, and could've bowled in a combo with

McGrath
Gillespie
Johnson
Warne

God that would've been amazing. I rate MJ as a test bowler more than I rate Lee.

 

[Red]

Also, I dont think he enjoyed being the attack's leader.

Bowled well early on when Lee/Clark were still around.

Muddled a bit in the middle when he led the attack with Siddle and Hilf which wasnt a good combo imo.

Then became better again when Harris came onto the scene and led the attack.

 

[Furball]

God he'd have been frightening in that combo. Build up of pressure from Warne and McGrath, then on comes Johnson to make you **** your pants.

Johnson
Warne
Harris
McGrath

Would probably be my all time Aussie attack based on players I've watched.

 

[Furball]

Also, I dont think he enjoyed being the attack's leader.

Bowled well early on when Lee/Clark were still around.

Muddled a bit in the middle when he led the attack with Siddle and Hilf which wasnt a good combo imo.

Then became better again when Harris came onto the scene and led the attack.

Yeah Johnson has amazing stats when he played with Harris. Took his wickets at 18 or something daft like that.

 

[Red]

God he'd have been frightening in that combo. Build up of pressure from Warne and McGrath, then on comes Johnson to make you **** your pants.

Johnson
Warne
Harris
McGrath

Would probably be my all time Aussie attack based on players I've watched.

I'd rate Gillespie ahead of Johnson, but in that combo he'd work well.

 

[Furball]

I'd rate Gillespie ahead of Johnson, but in that combo he'd work well.

I just missed Gillespie at his peak and my main memory of him is the 2005 Ashes. Would explain why he doesn't make it as I only really started watching cricket properly from 2003 onwards.

 

[Red]

Yeah Johnson has amazing stats when he played with Harris. Took his wickets at 18 or something daft like that.

Would be interesting to look at some of the really quick but potentially erratic quicks through history and analyse their stats when they did, and when they didn't have someone of high quality/control at the other end. Most real quicks have had someone at the other end to support them and it makes it easier for them to just unleash and threaten, rather than having to control as well.

Johnson - with Clark early and Harris later

Akhtar - Wasim early

Thommo - Lillee

Tyson - Statham

 

[Red]

I just missed Gillespie at his peak and my main memory of him is the 2005 Ashes. Would explain why he doesn't make it as I only really started watching cricket properly from 2003 onwards.

He was cooked by 2005, and he bowled appallingly. Was a much better bowler than that, for sure.

 

[zaremba]

OK, I didn't live through Thomson's career, but are we whitewashing him a bit?

Yes, he had his days where he obviously bowled fire - like, flamethrower, accelerant, everything, fire.

But it's like he's only remembered for being at his best because everyone waxes lyrical about it. He played a lot of cricket not at his best, for various reasons, but we cover it up and put him only a rung behind Lillee a lot of the time (in terms of Australian bowlers).

He's wound up with 200 wickets @ 28, vs MJ's 313 @ 28.4.

And we all talk about how bad MJ was at his worst, and he played through a lot of series on very, very flat wickets.

I'm not comfortable drawing direct comparisons, but here goes. Thommo was outstanding for the first part of his career and ordinary for the second, whereas Mitch could be both in the same over. Even when he was bowling rubbish, which was reasonably often, Mitch always had the ability to bowl a sudden brutal wicket-taking delivery even amidst the dross.

I'm even less comfortable attempting technical analysis, but here goes, and it's probably not particularly original, but MJ's biggest problem was his low arm. It mean that if he got the timing of release fractionally wrong he'd bowl short down the leg side or full down the off-side, both of which made him look like fodder. But if he got it right, the low arm gave him a trajectory that was hard to pick up, and at his pace it looked bloody horrible to face.

 

[Burgey]

OK, I didn't live through Thomson's career, but are we whitewashing him a bit?

Yes, he had his days where he obviously bowled fire - like, flamethrower, accelerant, everything, fire.

But it's like he's only remembered for being at his best because everyone waxes lyrical about it. He played a lot of cricket not at his best, for various reasons, but we cover it up and put him only a rung behind Lillee a lot of the time (in terms of Australian bowlers).

He's wound up with 200 wickets @ 28, vs MJ's 313 @ 28.4.

And we all talk about how bad MJ was at his worst, and he played through a lot of series on very, very flat wickets.

Very good point. Johnson was Thomson to Harris' Lillee in the last ashes series here. Harris was the better bowler overall but Johnson owned the series and was spectacular to watch.

 

[zaremba]

He was always box office, there's no doubt about that.

 

[zaremba]

I was at Edgbaston last year and watching him bowl on the second morning was one of the best things I've ever seen.

 

[Furball]

2009 Ashes sums him up in a funny way, bowled like an absolute drain for most of the series but somehow came out with an average of around 32 from memory with a reasonable number of wickets.

 

[listento_me]

I actually think he was pretty dull for the last year of his career. Prior to that he tended to oscillate from the sublime (Perth 08, South Africa 09, Perth 10, 2013/14) to the ridiculous (Ashes 2009, the rest of Ashes 2010/11) but he was always good value to watch.

Post Hughes and smacking Kohli he lost something and just turned into a boring bowler. Lost his menace but also retained the control he'd suddenly developed.

Johnson had snapshots of being very good but largely a mediocre, unfulfilled career but he was a very good stop gap at a time when Australia were reeling from not having enough pace quality.

God he'd have been frightening in that combo. Build up of pressure from Warne and McGrath, then on comes Johnson to make you **** your pants.

Johnson
Warne
Harris
McGrath

Would probably be my all time Aussie attack based on players I've watched.

Nope.

I don't think he gets into a team or a squad where there's McGrath, Warne, Lee, Gillespie, and McGill (at times). Plus, with all that pressure to do as well as thoseg uys, I think Johnson would crack. He wasn't the strongest guy mentally.

He was always box office, there's no doubt about that.

Not for a long period in the middle of his career. Without checking cricinfo, there was an Ashes series (think in England) where he looked a pathetic sight at times.

 

[Burgey]

Johnson was a much better bowler than Lee IMO. Honestly reckon Lee is at Rahane levels of being over rated. He was a blonde haired bowling machine for a lot of his career. Crazy fast but basically cannon fodder. Looked a world beater at the start, then had a good couple of years at the end. But in between was lucky to hold his place in the side.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Yup, no way I'd take Lee over Johnson as a Test bowler. And I think the idea that he'd feel the pressure of being the fourth bowler - when his career shows the opposite, he performed worse when he was the main banana - is a big leap.

 

[stephen]

Johnson was really the ideal 3rd seamer. On his day he could rip through sides but when it wasn't his day others could pick up the slack. He never was great with the new ball, particularly before 2013.

McGrath, Harris, Johnson and Warne would have been utterly unrelenting and a sight to behold.

 

[slippy888]

Brandon Bess

Where did it go wrong for him

 

[Johnners]

Johnson was a much better bowler than Lee IMO. Honestly reckon Lee is at Rahane levels of being over rated. He was a blonde haired bowling machine for a lot of his career. Crazy fast but basically cannon fodder. Looked a world beater at the start, then had a good couple of years at the end. But in between was lucky to hold his place in the side.

awta

Incredible fan boi bias admitted, but Andy Bichel should've played more than 19 Tests, and Lee is to blame.

But back on topic of the true Hero of this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbR-BYUmWKs

 

[andruid]

His career is proof of the need for moustaches to make men manly