***Official*** England in India 2016/17

[sheldon65]

I think that if Rashid is going to be our spinner in Australia he needs to play less white ball cricket and a lot more first class cricket. I don't doubt his ability to take wickets and spinn the ball but it seems to me at times he sacrifices consistency for more variation which is less important at test level. I don't think you can have a 'luxury bowler in Australian conditions, he needs to become consistent enough to hold an end, although as a leg spinner he shouldn't be held to the same expectations as off spinners who tend to have more control.

In terms off the seam attack we are well placed. Anderson and Broad are must picks at home, as is Stokes while Woakes would be hard done by to miss out. I'm looking forward to Mark Wood being fully fit again as I think his skiddiness and extra pace would be a good addition to the side in Australian conditions. It may be time to move on from Finn, there is younger more promising talent coming through the ranks in Ball and Roland-Jones.

 

[Howe_zat]

I think that if Rashid is going to be our spinner in Australia he needs to play less white ball cricket and a lot more first class cricket. I don't doubt his ability to take wickets and spinn the ball but it seems to me at times he sacrifices consistency for more variation which is less important at test level. I don't think you can have a 'luxury bowler in Australian conditions, he needs to become consistent enough to hold an end, although as a leg spinner he shouldn't be held to the same expectations as off spinners who tend to have more control.

As threatening as he can be when he gets it right, I can't see that ever happening any more. It's not happened in 10 years of first class cricket.

 

[sheldon65]

As threatening as he can be when he gets it right, I can't see that ever happening any more. It's not happened in 10 years of first class cricket.

In that case we either stick with Moeen as the only spinner, or give someone like Ansari a long roun in the side and try to develop him.

(N.B. I'm a big fan of Ansari, not least because he played at my club and went to my club and donated lots of kit to my uni)

 

[grecian]

As threatening as he can be when he gets it right, I can't see that ever happening any more. It's not happened in 10 years of first class cricket.

Yeah, in the end it was encouraging Moeen kept it tight this match, he's definitely more likely to contain than Adil, and as everyone is saying, if he keeps his place as mainly a bat ,that allows Rashid to play and just attack. He'll never be a stock bowler, he hasn't been for Yorkshire and even in this match (his best by some way in Tests) he still gave us long-hops and full-tosses galore.

 

[Daemon]

Well played England. Rashid in particular was very impressive, didn't expect him to do well at all. Root Moeen partnership was class and we never got back into the game after that.

I was happy enough with our first innings bowling (not often you can be satisfied despite conceding 500) but we just weren't there in the 2nd. Mishra especially was garbage throughout. He doesn't use his hips at all when bowling. It's all shoulder and that's why he isn't able to quicken his pace without losing his flight. Bowls way too slowly at times and we've all seen how important a bit of pace is for spinners in the last few years. He's also very weak mentally, can't land it where he wants to once he's put under even a bit of pressure.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

In that case we either stick with Moeen as the only spinner, or give someone like Ansari a long roun in the side and try to develop him.

(N.B. I'm a big fan of Ansari, not least because he played at my club and went to my club and donated lots of kit to my uni)

Well you are biased then. Looking at him he just hasn't got it and we should have picked Leach ahead of him. He is a real bits and pieces player like we used to pick to try and replace Botham and he is isn't good enough at either aspect of the game to warrant a place in the side. No offence but if you are playing 2nd fiddle in your county side to Batty then you aren't an international spinner no matter how nice a bloke you are.

 

[sheldon65]

I agree that Leach should be in the squad. I don't see the merit in picking Batty especially if he doesn't play every game. I may be slightly biased with ansari, but my point is less about him playing and more about giving a young spinner a chance to have a run in the side and develop. Could be Leach or Rayner as well, both made a strong case for selection this season.

 

[grecian]

I think Ansari has shown some good sides to his bowling, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he developed into a useful cricketer, but have never understood the belief you develop in Test cricket, in fact it seems the worst place to do it, an A team berth would have been much better for him IMHO.

 

[Biryani Pillow]

In that case we either stick with Moeen as the only spinner, or give someone like Ansari a long roun in the side and try to develop him.

(N.B. I'm a big fan of Ansari, not least because he played at my club and went to my club and donated lots of kit to my uni)

Egham?

 

[sheldon65]

Weybridge

 

[viriya]

Didn't get to watch much of this - what happened to Ashwin: bad game or just pitch too docile?

 

[Shri]

Bit of both.

 

[grecian]

Didn't get to watch much of this - what happened to Ashwin: bad game or just pitch too docile?

Bit of both.

Third and strange option too, England actually played him well.

 

[Bijed]

I think Ansari has shown some good sides to his bowling, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he developed into a useful cricketer, but have never understood the belief you develop in Test cricket, in fact it seems the worst place to do it, an A team berth would have been much better for him IMHO.

I'd say that players definitely can develop in test cricket - Rashid would appear to be doing so now. I agree that you more often hear of players initially struggling in the test arena and going away to relentlessly work on their deficiencies in domestic cricket before coming back to their test side as a much better player.

 

[grecian]

I'd say that players definitely can develop in test cricket - Rashid would appear to be doing so now. I agree that you more often hear of players initially struggling in the test arena and going away to relentlessly work on their deficiencies in domestic cricket before coming back to their test side as a much better player.

Rashid has played a decade or so in domestic cricket, he's not developing in Test cricket, as you say Rashid went back to county cricket after being rubbish in International cricket, as you say. Ansari despite being nearly 25 just hasn't bowled much, he's only taken 127 first-class wickets.

 

[Bijed]

Oops, yeah, sorry, managed to forget that Rashid was out of the test side for a year, I guess I made the mistake because he's stayed in the limited overs sides, not that that excuses it. I'd argue though that playing a decade of domestic cricket doesn't necessarily mean a player has no further scope for development if they then play test cricket, though as I type this it occurs that we might be thinking of two different meanings (or maybe just stages) of development.

 

[grecian]

Oops, yeah, sorry, managed to forget that Rashid was out of the test side for a year, I guess I made the mistake because he's stayed in the limited overs sides, not that that excuses it. I'd argue though that playing a decade of domestic cricket doesn't necessarily mean a player has no further scope for development if they then play test cricket, though as I type this it occurs that we might be thinking of two different meanings (or maybe just stages) of development.

Yes I think we probably are, development to me suggests rudimental learning, not just improving your skills, hence why I think International cricket is the worst place to do this. Rashid made his England debut in 2009 BTW. Wasn't really up to it.

 

[Bijed]

In that case I completely agree with you

 

[marc71178]

Stokes and Woakes both have that.

You forgot Cook and Root...

 

[marc71178]

Yeah there's no point rushing him back at the moment. It should be Ansari or Woakes to go when he plays (third Test, I'd be looking at) depending on what the brains trust makes of the pitch.

There's also the chance he could switch with Broad for a game, depending on workloads.