***Official*** Pakistan in New Zealand 2016/17

[Blocky]

Ha, wow. Everyone knows I love Dutchy like I love the cold side of the pillow but I never saw this coming. International teams do love their two-part players at 6 and 7, don't they. Neesham/Astle/Dutchy.

Presumably it's Henry and Dutchy that miss out for Hagley.

I know someone else was excited by Astle but does he really have the weapons to be a Test bowler? Doesn't turn his leg break that much, quite flat, no great variation...I'm not saying Ish deserves to be there at all but he does at least have a few more weapons in terms of a good wrong-un, bounce etc. Astle does have a much better grouping but I'm not really sure Pakistan will be too troubled by him. I really think we missed a trick by not picking Jeets if it's going to rag. I know who I'd want on day 5/fourth innings.

Short Answer: Absolutely not.

Slightly longer answer: Bowls too slow, doesn't put enough rotation on the ball, doesn't get the ball to drift, doesn't get the ball to drop and relies on batsmen making mistakes to take wickets.... but he does land a lot of balls where he intends them to land which potentially puts him ahead of Sodhi.

 

[Zinzan]

Kane Williamson (c)
Todd Astle
Trent Boult
Colin de Grandhomme
Matt Henry
Tom Latham
Henry Nicholls
Jimmy Neesham
Jeet Raval
Tim Southee
Ross Taylor
Neil Wagner
BJ Watling

Wow.

Don't know about big Colin de, but how refreshing it is that they've finally had the guts to drop Guptill.

Should actually be better for his white-ball cricket as well to concentrate on what he's good at, smacking that white ball around on good flat batting tracks.

 

[African Monkey]

Colin De Grandhomme has made it! Love that guy even though he probably won't play.

 

[SteveNZ]

Short Answer: Absolutely not.

Slightly longer answer: Bowls too slow, doesn't put enough rotation on the ball, doesn't get the ball to drift, doesn't get the ball to drop and relies on batsmen making mistakes to take wickets.... but he does land a lot of balls where he intends them to land which potentially puts him ahead of Sodhi.

Yep, totally agree with all that. His only Test wicket was his high water mark in terms of being an international leg-spinner, for me. Spun about as much as he can offer, half a bat length.

I actually don't like the selection at all. What's the point of having selectors if they're going to pick purely off stats. He's a guy that I presume most of us can't see being a threat at Test level, and isn't really a Test 7 or above either. As I say, we get on a raggy one next week and I'm not sure Todd Astle is going to scare anyone. As inconsistent as Mark Craig was, he was given a few opportunities to bowl his side to victory and took 3 of them I can think of - because he gives it a rip, drifts it and is tall. Ie has tools.

I don't like the Jeet selection either, they tried to be clever by not taking him to India then he comes back to NZ and proves very little - certainly less than the guy he's replacing.

 

[Flem274*]

what's the point of having a domestic season if you're not going to use performance in it as a guide?

regardless of whether he's any good or not, astle deserves more than one measly test to prove what he is one way or the other.

we've given international matches to sodhi and devcich recently ffs

 

[SteveNZ]

what's the point of having a domestic season if you're not going to use performance in it as a guide?

regardless of whether he's any good or not, astle deserves more than one measly test to prove what he is one way or the other.

we've given international matches to sodhi and devcich recently ffs

There's a point to it, of course there is. But that point is not to identify that Player A has averaged 28 with the ball and 30 with the bat over the last 3/4 years, therefore automatically deserves a chance. I bloody hope it's not.

With the video technology now and presumably being at the ground a bit, these selectors aren't - or shouldn't - be going on hunches or stats. It should be 'Todd Astle has the skills to be a good Test player' not 'Todd Astle has demanded a spot on statistics' The last one is crap. Martin Guptill will continue to demand selection over the next 3-4 years based on his domestic numbers. So will Jeet. Dare I mention Peter Ingram?

Domestic cricket has its value in showcasing guys who have the qualities that sometimes might be rough around the edges but can be moulded into Test calibre. Of course performances are a guide, but they're not - or again, shouldn't be - the overriding factor to selection. To me, that's why Ish and Mark Craig were picked. Both had Test-quality tools. To me, Todd Astle does not.

 

[NZTailender]

Kane Williamson (c)
Todd Astle
Trent Boult
Colin de Grandhomme
Matt Henry
Tom Latham
Henry Nicholls
Jimmy Neesham
Jeet Raval
Tim Southee
Ross Taylor
Neil Wagner
BJ Watling

Wow.

I'd like

1. T Latham
2. J Raval
3. K Williamson
4. R Taylor
5. H Nicholls
6. BJ Watling+
7. T Astle
8. M Henry
9. N Wagner
10. T Southee
11. T Boult

Long tail but Tastle is good for it imho

 

[Howe_zat]

Has Corey Anderson fallen miles as a Test cricketer or is he just not fit?

I reckon they're going 1 Raval, 6/7 Neesh, 8 Astle.

 

[Blocky]

Yep, totally agree with all that. His only Test wicket was his high water mark in terms of being an international leg-spinner, for me. Spun about as much as he can offer, half a bat length.

I actually don't like the selection at all. What's the point of having selectors if they're going to pick purely off stats. He's a guy that I presume most of us can't see being a threat at Test level, and isn't really a Test 7 or above either. As I say, we get on a raggy one next week and I'm not sure Todd Astle is going to scare anyone. As inconsistent as Mark Craig was, he was given a few opportunities to bowl his side to victory and took 3 of them I can think of - because he gives it a rip, drifts it and is tall. Ie has tools.

I don't like the Jeet selection either, they tried to be clever by not taking him to India then he comes back to NZ and proves very little - certainly less than the guy he's replacing.

I do wonder if Craig hadn't been injured if he would have got the job ahead of the others, I think what they're finally learning (and should have known probably for the last 15-20 years) is that the number of wickets you're taking at domestic level do not matter, it's the way you're taking them that does. If you look at people like Sodhi, Jeetan Patel, Todd Astle, they're not taking wickets you see often at international level, they're taking wickets of people who simply don't know how to control themselves, have a rush of blood to the head once every ten balls and do stupid things to get out.

Jeet Raval is just the next in line of NZ Selector policy, "We'll take you on an international trip and not play you, then send you back to domestic level where your performances decline and once we're sure that the form you originally built to get a tour selection has gone, we'll put you in the side." The Ronchi non selection is another great example of NZ Selector policy "Even though you were one of the few high lights in our batting order in India, we're going to drop you because you didn't perform in another format"

 

[Mike5181]

Has Corey Anderson fallen miles as a Test cricketer or is he just not fit?

I reckon they're going 1 Raval, 6/7 Neesh, 8 Astle.

Yeah, Anderson wasn't considered. Hasn't bowled enough since his comeback apparently.

 

[Blocky]

I'd like

1. T Latham
2. J Raval
3. K Williamson
4. R Taylor
5. H Nicholls
6. BJ Watling+
7. T Astle
8. M Henry
9. N Wagner
10. T Southee
11. T Boult

Long tail but Tastle is good for it imho

When 4 and 6 are in form, with an established 5, maybe..

We can't afford that line up considering the only two players we know are in form and test match capable at the moment are Williamson and Latham. We will need to stack our batting order, especially against Pakistan who have a much better bowling attack than most sides who have visited NZ recently.

 

[NZTailender]

When 4 and 6 are in form, with an established 5, maybe..

We can't afford that line up considering the only two players we know are in form and test match capable at the moment are Williamson and Latham. We will need to stack our batting order, especially against Pakistan who have a much better bowling attack than most sides who have visited NZ recently.

Oh they're going Neesh/CdG at 6, no doubt. Our battings weak, but I like me a 4 prong pace attack + Tastle

 

[SteveNZ]

I do wonder if Craig hadn't been injured if he would have got the job ahead of the others, I think what they're finally learning (and should have known probably for the last 15-20 years) is that the number of wickets you're taking at domestic level do not matter, it's the way you're taking them that does. If you look at people like Sodhi, Jeetan Patel, Todd Astle, they're not taking wickets you see often at international level, they're taking wickets of people who simply don't know how to control themselves, have a rush of blood to the head once every ten balls and do stupid things to get out.

Jeet Raval is just the next in line of NZ Selector policy, "We'll take you on an international trip and not play you, then send you back to domestic level where your performances decline and once we're sure that the form you originally built to get a tour selection has gone, we'll put you in the side." The Ronchi non selection is another great example of NZ Selector policy "Even though you were one of the few high lights in our batting order in India, we're going to drop you because you didn't perform in another format"

It's a decent question - would Mark have been picked ahead of Todd. Really not sure, I bloody hope so. Todd might be the better performing FC spinner and also batsman, but Pidg has shown himself very capable with the bat at Test level, more than I'd expect from Todd (I know that's not fair given he made a decent score on debut and has no other chances, but it's a hunch) and furthermore he's infinitely more likely to win a Test match in the 4th innings. Todd only passes muster as a holding bowler, which given our **** Test record this year I'd rather someone who might get pinged for a couple but can take a big bag.

The Jeet thing is ridiculous. It's this 21st century mentality where selectors and management justify their existence by 'thinking outside the box'. They took Jeet to SA but kept backing the existing limping horse, said India wasn't necessarily a place for traditional openers - yet continued to open with two Test specialised openers whilst one was in all sorts of bad form and continued to exhibit it. Jeet comes back, doesn't turn any of his 6 starts into a ton, and some of the shots he got out to were absolutely awful (read the mow to be bowled off Jeet, steering Viljoen straight to gully and poking to Bennett outside off stump which honestly could've been a dead ball if he'd got runs, it was that far away from being classified as a shot) but yet in he goes for a guy who outscored him in the last game. It's okay to replace people and I advocated Jeet in SA and India, but not when he's had chances to justify it since and hasn't taken it. Of course, I'm sure he learnt lots from 'being in the environment' in Africa and making 30 in a tour match v Zimbabwe A.

 

[Athlai]

Oh they're going Neesh/CdG at 6, no doubt. Our battings weak, but I like me a 4 prong pace attack + Tastle

Wish one of those quicks was a genuine #8, All solid enough #9/10s but reckon it's way too weak a tail.

 

[smash84]

Wish one of those quicks was a genuine #8, All solid enough #9/10s but reckon it's way too weak a tail.

still >>> Pak tail

 

[smash84]

Interesting hypothesis

Blogs: Hassan Cheema: The myth of Pakistan's weak pace attack | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo

Pakistan haven't lost a Test series to New Zealand in 30 years, while their two wins in Australia since 1980 came in dead rubbers after they lost the series. The tour to Australia is how ex-players define how hard Test cricket is. They tell stories, of big, hairy men, ready to kill them at a moment's notice.

A bit rich calling the Aussies hairy. Pakistan doesn't lack in that dept either.

 

[Bahnz]

A bit rich calling the Aussies hairy. Pakistan doesn't lack in that dept either.

Tell that to Wahab.

 

[Zinzan]

I'd like

1. T Latham
2. J Raval
3. K Williamson
4. R Taylor
5. H Nicholls
6. BJ Watling+
7. T Astle
8. M Henry
9. N Wagner
10. T Southee
11. T Boult

Long tail but Tastle is good for it imho

I'd be happy enough with that side given the squad options. I like having a left hander at 5 regardless & I do think Nicholls played well enough against Steyn, Rabada & co in SA to get another chance

 

[Bahnz]

Nah, I tend to agree that going in with 5 bowlers leaves the side badly unbalanced given the current frailties in the top order. It's got to be either a specialist bat at 6, or a batting allrounder like Neesham/Anderson. Wagoulthee have never had too many problems taking 20 wickets in NZ conditions, don't see the point of playing a fifth bowler.

 

[Athlai]

Nah, I tend to agree that going in with 5 bowlers leaves the side badly unbalanced given the current frailties in the top order. It's got to be either a specialist bat at 6, or a batting allrounder like Neesham/Anderson. Wagoulthee have never had too many problems taking 20 wickets in NZ conditions, don't see the point of playing a fifth bowler.

Yeah if Southee fails this summer Henry comes in, but Wagoulthee + Santa + Anderson/Neesham is our optimal mix.