***Official*** Pakistan in New Zealand 2016/17

[Zinzan]

Craig is a better off spinner than Jeets? You're dreaming.

After watching that Indian series, I'd say Jeets has a slight edge on Craig as a Test spinner, but not by much.

In terms of averages, I'd say Jeets is still a late-30s,early 40s Test spinner, whereas Craig is an early 40s, to mid 40s Test spinner.

 

[Blocky]

Jeetan Patel, returning to the test series, did nothing of use or note in conditions that absolutely suited him... but he's better than Mark Craig.

Cool story we're working on here guys. One where we disregard how incompetent Jeetan is at test level in favor of him taking domestic wickets, that really worked out well when Todd Astle got selected didn't it?

 

[straw man]

Conditions did not 'absolutely suit him' in the second test where most of the wickets were taken by pace, while in the third he did no worse than anyone else in the first innings, after which the game was lost. There's also the general principle that if you select someone for test cricket, you give them 2 or 3 series to prove themselves. His series all up was neither brilliant nor a bust - more info is needed. In this series dropping Patel, considering that Santner is out, would be a massive overreaction.

Would be good if you could cut the sarcasm too.

Why are you suddenly acting like Mark Craig is some standard-setting bowler?. He's looked like it about once, in the last tour of England where for an innings or two he managed to be both incisive and less expensive, but then lost it completely in the series against Australia. He was not good in the first test against India either.

 

[straw man]

'Good, fair cricket wicket' waiting for Black Caps in Christchurch | Stuff.co.nz

The Black Caps' coach would have raised his eyebrows after last week's Plunket Shield match between Canterbury and Central Districts at Christchurch's Hagley Oval, where an alarming 24 wickets fell to spin.
"It will be more traditional New Zealand conditions. [The last match at Hagley] was a bit of an anomaly for first class cricket. I don't think that will be likely to happen test match time," Bool said.

 

[Blocky]

I'm not cutting any sarcasm, you're dead set attempting to suggest that we should disregard how completely ineffective Jeetan has been at test level over his entire career, in favor of him having taken wickets at county level recently despite the trend of incompetent bowlers like Ryder and Franklin being absolute beasts in that scene.

I'm pointing out Mark Craig offers far more to the NZ Cricket side than Patel ever will and that bowling wise, Craig has won tests for us and played a big role in victories he's been part of. Jeetan has never been the reason we've won a test, and in tests that we've won where he's played, he's hardly been trusted to bowl by his captain.

The idea that Patel should return to our test squad after again proving he's an incompetent player in India is beyond me. As much as I think Sodhi shouldn't even get a spot for ND, I'd rather him play than Jeetan.

All Jeetan can do is spear the ball in, in a holding role which has no purpose in test cricket, especially in NZ conditions.

So, I'll sarcasm all day about the idea you have that Jeetan should play. If the selectors pick him, it's in effect another "We don't give a **** about winning test matches anymore"

In relationship to "24 wickets falling to spin" - no, 24 wickets fell to incompetent batsmanship at Hagley.

 

[Bahnz]

It's a great part of NZ Selector operating practice to select players when they're out of form, so expect Raval to get the call up.

As for Jeets, do you really think they're that stupid to go back to him after how ineffective he proved? Craig is a better off spinner than Jeets and gives you a steady hand in the batting side of things, but ultimately, we shouldn't be selecting a spinner in NZ conditions unless they're actually worthy of a test spot - if Santner isn't available, don't select a C Grade cricketer to replace him.

If you're taking India as proof of Jeets' incompetence I'm not sure why you're so confident that Santner is worthy of a test sport. Jeets finished the series with a better average and strike rate than Santner. I suppose you could argue that Santner's batting pushes him over the top, but at this point he's really only a handy number 8.

 

[Zinzan]

This debate between Jeets and Craig is like the current US election.... the respective supporters trying to argue who's the worst of the two, since neither are actually any good at test level...

 

[Bahnz]

Stop making damn comparisons to the US election.

 

[straw man]

I'm not cutting any sarcasm

I'll sarcasm all day

Makes you come across as a snarky jerk.

I'm not cutting any sarcasm, you're dead set attempting to suggest that we should disregard how completely ineffective Jeetan has been at test level over his entire career, in favor of him having taken wickets at county level recently despite the trend of incompetent bowlers like Ryder and Franklin being absolute beasts in that scene.

That's Div II and also, English conditions are great for non-express swing bowling. Jeets has succeeded for a long time in Div I where conditions are occasionally good for spin and sometimes not. He's been great especially where Warwickshire have put on some good runs and can afford to attack.

I'm pointing out Mark Craig offers far more to the NZ Cricket side than Patel ever will and that bowling wise, Craig has won tests for us and played a big role in victories he's been part of. Jeetan has never been the reason we've won a test, and in tests that we've won where he's played, he's hardly been trusted to bowl by his captain.

Craig has occasionally done well and shown glimpses of what he could be, however we can't afford a total liability like how he's bowled more recently. He was awful against Australia.

The idea that Patel should return to our test squad after again proving he's an incompetent player in India is beyond me. As much as I think Sodhi shouldn't even get a spot for ND, I'd rather him play than Jeetan.

All Jeetan can do is spear the ball in, in a holding role which has no purpose in test cricket, especially in NZ conditions.

Completely wrong, didn't prove any incompetence in India (or prove competence, it takes more time), and he's not a dart thrower at all.

If the selectors pick him, it's in effect another "We don't give a **** about winning test matches anymore"

This is up there on the hyperbole scale.

If we're playing a spinner, which we should (considering Santner injured), then it should be Jeets.

 

[straw man]

This debate between Jeets and Craig is like the current US election.... the respective supporters trying to argue who's the worst of the two, since neither are actually any good at test level...

Since neither is a narcissistic toddler with autocratic tendencies, this comparison is not valid.

 

[Black_Warrior]

So the Hagley Oval ground has only had 2 test matches so far? Is this a new ground?

 

[Zinzan]

Stop making damn comparisons to the US election.

Lol, C'mon mate, it's election day I wouldn't bring that in here any other time...

 

[Zinzan]

Since neither is a narcissistic toddler with autocratic tendencies nor a lying corrupt fraudster, this comparison is not valid.

Fixed

 

[straw man]

give it a rest Zinzan

 

[Zinzan]

give it a rest Zinzan

Jesus mate, you're seriously crying about one political analogy made tongue in cheek on election day? Get over yourself buddy.

 

[Blocky]

If you're taking India as proof of Jeets' incompetence I'm not sure why you're so confident that Santner is worthy of a test sport. Jeets finished the series with a better average and strike rate than Santner. I suppose you could argue that Santner's batting pushes him over the top, but at this point he's really only a handy number 8.

Let's see, Santner came out of India with the Indians themselves and their journalists stating that we had found a replacement for Daniel Vettori and that he was undisputed in his class, also happened to be 23 yrs old and at the beginning curve of his career versus a 35 yr old at the end of his who never improved. Santner also took more wickets, restricted the run flow and was trusted by his captain to do the job.

I love these logical fallacies people attempt to use.

 

[Blocky]

So the Hagley Oval ground has only had 2 test matches so far? Is this a new ground?

Yes - it replaced Lancaster Park/Jade Stadium after the Earthquake.

 

[straw man]

@Zinzan

What a strange overreaction, my comment was made with a roll of the eyes 'yeah yeah'. You really need to use some imagination to say I was 'crying'.

 

[Zinzan]

Nah, it's an expression...what's strange is you feeling the need to post "give it a rest Zinzan",just because I made a tongue in cheek political analogy on election day... lighten up.

 

[straw man]

I think you've entirely misinterpreted my tone but whatever.