fredfertang
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
England also had lots of good players in the 90s, trouble was that thanks to Ray Illingworth we had a bad team
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cricketing narratives that aren't true
- Thread starter Shady Slim
- Start date
cnerd123
likes this
MSD being a defensive captain is pretty accurate, but that doesn't make him bad or 'worse'.
Keep in mind he played in the T20 era, his preference for building pressure and squeezing runs worked quite well for a long while. He struggled when the bowlers struggled to give him the same control; and I'm not sure whether or not a more aggressive captain would have gotten more out of the attack in those situations. And yea he had his bad moments - let the game drift now and then, an obsession with the short ball - but no captain is ever perfect.
Keep in mind he played in the T20 era, his preference for building pressure and squeezing runs worked quite well for a long while. He struggled when the bowlers struggled to give him the same control; and I'm not sure whether or not a more aggressive captain would have gotten more out of the attack in those situations. And yea he had his bad moments - let the game drift now and then, an obsession with the short ball - but no captain is ever perfect.
Shri
Mr. Glass
Ishant did his role well at home for those two years. They maintained the shine on the ball so well and got the ball to reverse early. In the home series against Aus in 09/10(? can't remember. Hayden's last test series here I think) they were talked about highly and were very important in the series win. Check cricinfo articles from that series and you'll see what I mean.
flibbertyjibber
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All Illingworth's fault, clearly Bumble had nothing to do with the side being terrible.
vcs
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That series was in 2008.. Kumble's retirement series and MS captained the 2 games that India won, including the infamous Ponting tactic of bowling part-timers to maintain the over-rate. But India actually won that match because Dhoni pulled the Aussies back from a dominant first innings position with his 8-2 field. Ishant did bowl well in that series, he regressed in 2009-2010.
Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
Dhoni got the captaincy from Kumble retiring so naming Kumble is odd.
Shri
Mr. Glass
Yeah, not a bright one fam.
fredfertang
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
him too
listento_me
U19 Captain
The West Indies can't produce another top cricketer even if their lives depended on it...wait scratch that. This one is probably true.
Shady Slim
International Coach
funnily enough the argument that cricket is a batsman's game seems to be truer in tests and ODIs than T20s because of the spinner renaissance in the shortest format
listento_me
U19 Captain
He'd probs be the best seam/"pace" bowler in India, depending on how you view Dev.
I don't know of anyone who thinks Boult is better than Starc, and I live in NZ. Maybe Howsie. Channel 9 is ****ing horrible, in its coverage of all sports but particularly cricket. And honestly, I don't think that's an opinion.
The false narrative that continually gets me is the one in professional cricketing circles, where discussions around yorkers and their place in the game are a way of people in this environment expressing that they know all and we outside the 'tent' have no idea. Basically that us plebs who aren't involved in the game for a living haven't analysed the data and know that yorkers are a horrendous risk that demands inch perfection or the guarantee of being hit for 12 if you don't execute it correctly. Ignoring the fact, of course, that professional cricketers play the sport for a living and should be able to bowl deliveries somewhat on cue, and that whilst laps and ramps are part of the modern-day vernacular, they actually carry a high degree of risk themselves - far greater than yorkers in my view. My non-elite participant view, of course.
Going back to "England in the 90s", one myth I've seen (at least from those English writers/fans who were besotted with Botham - not sure anyone else fell for it) was that England were a good team in the 80s but fell away drastically in the 90s.
In the 1980s, England won 20 Tests and lost 39 (out of a total of 104).
In the 1990s, England won 26 Tests and lost 43 (out of a total of 107).
In the 1980s, England won 20 Tests and lost 39 (out of a total of 104).
In the 1990s, England won 26 Tests and lost 43 (out of a total of 107).
Gnske
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I wouldn't trust a kiwi to know anything about A-grade production values
Wouldn't trust Brad McNamara either.
What is so unhorrible about CH9s coverage? The polls regarding favourite pizza topping? The nauseating sycophancy? The lack of actual insight from guys who spent years of their lives on cricket fields and in cricket environments? The complete lack of insight and basic knowledge regarding touring sides?
Actually sorry, just give your own answer - ignore my pre-ordained answers. I'm genuinely interested to hear why you think CH9's coverage doesn't suck.
_Ed_
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The sad thing is they'd probably be doing better if they were plucky.
Burgey
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I think the two underlying things which are awful about Nine's coverage are the intentional dumbing down of the commentary and the commentators being cheer leaders rather than analysts.
Someone like Michael Slater, when he first started commentary, provided really good insights into the game. He doesn't even try now. The same with Ian Healy. When Mark Nicholas does a domestic LO game, he starts talking technical matters cricket and it's brilliant. Really incisive. But when the international season starts they flick the switch to vaudeville and it's awful. I think the saddest of all is Mark Taylor. Sad not just because he's a Liberal Party supporter and loves John Howard, but tragic because he had such great tactical nous as a captain, and we get little to none of it on the tv. If he was offering the sort of insight he is capable of, I'd be prepared to forgive the upward inflection at the end of every word. It's flat out awful, and just when you think they are all complete idiots, they have a lunch break and Warne/ Taylor/ Healy do a masterclass on their specialised skill and it's beyond wonderful. Taylor and Slater talking one time about opening the batting, rotating the strike, knowing where their off stump was etc was ****ing mind blowing. Warne doing the same thing with leg spin was flat out incredible. Just watching the control he had and how he thought about his bowling - it was like he became a different person. But I think the best of all was Ian Healy doing a spiel on 'keeping. It was ridiculously enlightening. I dead set thought they'd put an Ian Healy mask on a real person for the segment, it was that good.
Most people don't like Ian Chappell, but he speaks his mind and gives decent insights into things. When Channel Nine started commentating, he was probably the weakest link of the fab four (Richie, Tony, Bill and Chappelli). These days imo he is easily the strongest of the Nine commentators.
I miss Bill, Tony and Richie. I like it when Bill comes back for the Boxing Day test, but I wish he was still about all the time. Sure he is parochial and gets excited, but he's prepared to call it as he sees it, and his humour (especially at Greig's expense) is badly missed. I remember when they used to do these postcard pieces from whichever city they were in and they cut away to pics of Bondi beach with Greigy saying "Look at that Bill, just magnificent. Only a short walk down the road from my place, too". "Yeah, why don't you get out in the western suburbs with the real people, Tony Greig?"
Now you've got, as Steve said, polls about pizza, you have that idiot James Brayshaw who is beneath contempt and real boys' club in-"jokes" between a bunch of blokes who mostly played in the same side. Maybe they need to get some blokes from different eras. Someone else from the 70s or 80s (you know who, TOTAB) or sack the lot of them and just bring in the BBL commentary team from channel ten.
Someone like Michael Slater, when he first started commentary, provided really good insights into the game. He doesn't even try now. The same with Ian Healy. When Mark Nicholas does a domestic LO game, he starts talking technical matters cricket and it's brilliant. Really incisive. But when the international season starts they flick the switch to vaudeville and it's awful. I think the saddest of all is Mark Taylor. Sad not just because he's a Liberal Party supporter and loves John Howard, but tragic because he had such great tactical nous as a captain, and we get little to none of it on the tv. If he was offering the sort of insight he is capable of, I'd be prepared to forgive the upward inflection at the end of every word. It's flat out awful, and just when you think they are all complete idiots, they have a lunch break and Warne/ Taylor/ Healy do a masterclass on their specialised skill and it's beyond wonderful. Taylor and Slater talking one time about opening the batting, rotating the strike, knowing where their off stump was etc was ****ing mind blowing. Warne doing the same thing with leg spin was flat out incredible. Just watching the control he had and how he thought about his bowling - it was like he became a different person. But I think the best of all was Ian Healy doing a spiel on 'keeping. It was ridiculously enlightening. I dead set thought they'd put an Ian Healy mask on a real person for the segment, it was that good.
Most people don't like Ian Chappell, but he speaks his mind and gives decent insights into things. When Channel Nine started commentating, he was probably the weakest link of the fab four (Richie, Tony, Bill and Chappelli). These days imo he is easily the strongest of the Nine commentators.
I miss Bill, Tony and Richie. I like it when Bill comes back for the Boxing Day test, but I wish he was still about all the time. Sure he is parochial and gets excited, but he's prepared to call it as he sees it, and his humour (especially at Greig's expense) is badly missed. I remember when they used to do these postcard pieces from whichever city they were in and they cut away to pics of Bondi beach with Greigy saying "Look at that Bill, just magnificent. Only a short walk down the road from my place, too". "Yeah, why don't you get out in the western suburbs with the real people, Tony Greig?"
Now you've got, as Steve said, polls about pizza, you have that idiot James Brayshaw who is beneath contempt and real boys' club in-"jokes" between a bunch of blokes who mostly played in the same side. Maybe they need to get some blokes from different eras. Someone else from the 70s or 80s (you know who, TOTAB) or sack the lot of them and just bring in the BBL commentary team from channel ten.
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smash84
The Tiger King
Quite well put. I love lawry too. And yes, Brayshaw is the absolute worst. Might as well hear a horse bray than to hear Brayshaw.
quincywagstaff
International Debutant
- The WACA Test pitch being a fast bowler’s dream full of pace and bounce. They were still talking it up during the Matador Cup last week
- How good a batsman Allan Border was against the West Indies. Yes, had a great tour of the West Indies in 83/84 (and a very good series in 81/82) but the Windies always had his measure after that.
- How good a batsman Allan Border was against the West Indies. Yes, had a great tour of the West Indies in 83/84 (and a very good series in 81/82) but the Windies always had his measure after that.