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Dhoni Vs Gilchrist in ODIs.
- Thread starter bagapath
- Start date
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
Nah he is not.
OverratedSanity
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#KohliThoughts
Burgey
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Of course he is. Played in three winning sides, went in first in all of them and made 54(36), 57(48) and 149(104). In the last two he helped end the game as a contest inside 20 overs, in the first he ensured Pakistan didn't get a sniff defending a piss weak total. He was a massive player in WC Finals.
OverratedSanity
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Dhoni was never even dismissed at a world Cup final though.
smash84
The Tiger King
Yeah, he wasn't needed in the 1999 final as you say. Martyn and ponting were the ones who really took the game away in 2003. He only did well in the 2007 final. So yeah, Dhoni is better.
Burgey
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Well, I'd say in 2003 at 1-115 in the 13th when Gilchrist was dismissed, the game was well on its way to being done. As for 99, the only way Pakistan was ever going to have a shot was taking cheap early wickets. He demolished them and made what was an extremely favourable position a foregone conclusion.
As Jono said, he was a clutch player in the biggest ODI games going. It's as plain as the nose on Pujara's face.
If you want your all time team to play a heap of meaningless ODIs and have a gun finisher, pick Dhoni. If you want them to play in WC finals and want your keeper to go in first, pick Gilly. They played completely different roles, batting wise. Dhoni is up there with the best finishers ever. But if Gilchrist brings his best, Dhoni isn't needed to finish anything. The game's up.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
Lol, the 99 final was done as a contest by the time the 1st innings ended. And the 03 final was good but he did not set up anything as Ponting and Martyn did. The opening partnership was a typical blast off start that could have gone anywhere without the efforts of Ponting and Martyn. The 07 final was the really good one. And clutch is not the WC final alone... It has been proven to death why it's a stupid argument many times here.
Burgey
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Couple of points. Ponting and Martyn, brilliant as they were, had their jobs made a lot easier than they would have at 2/sfa.
Secondly, WC finals is all about clutchiness. Nothing else comes close to the clutchiness of a WC final, because you can have an insane tourney and you lose one game, you're just another also ran. Look at tendulkar in 03 -dominated the lead up matches and took a McGrath sized dose of gas in the final. Choked in 11 as well fwiw. The WC is about the only time cricket has anything like the football codes - it comes down to the final. the rankings system is he equivalent of the EPL - you get rewarded for performing across four years, but ask any of the Saffer blokes who were in number one ranked ODI sides if they'd swap that for a WC win, and they would in a heart beat.
Secondly, WC finals is all about clutchiness. Nothing else comes close to the clutchiness of a WC final, because you can have an insane tourney and you lose one game, you're just another also ran. Look at tendulkar in 03 -dominated the lead up matches and took a McGrath sized dose of gas in the final. Choked in 11 as well fwiw. The WC is about the only time cricket has anything like the football codes - it comes down to the final. the rankings system is he equivalent of the EPL - you get rewarded for performing across four years, but ask any of the Saffer blokes who were in number one ranked ODI sides if they'd swap that for a WC win, and they would in a heart beat.
vcs
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Clutch-ness is a pretty vacuous concept. It's simple probability. Each knockout match is a roughly independent event, the team collectively fails if all (or most of) the individuals fail in any given knockout match. The more great players you have, the lower the chances of that happening, so no wonder Australia won all those WCs when you had 7-8 ATGs simultaneously. They just won't all fail at the same time. Mind you, if we were talking about SA here, they would still find a way to lose.
Burgey
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You're not evaluating them just over a few matches. You're looking at fantastic players who are both superb and at ways and means to separate them when deciding to put them into a side. If I had my druthers I'd probably play them both tbh, because they were both so good at their batting roles, which were very different. Maybe Dhoni can keep if the team bats first, I dunno.
