The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[honestbharani]

But what about Barnes or Lohmann? I keep seeing words like flight and turn in description of their bowling styles.

 

[Howe_zat]

Lohmann was a seam up medium fast bowler who relied on accuracy and the natural seam movement on 1880s wickets. Barnes bowled primarily leg cutters but could vary his pace enough to get flight and drift. I've not included Barnes as he was between a seam and swing bowler, I've not included Lohmann as he's got a weird record and it'd distract from the conversation, as you have successfully done, so top job there

 

[honestbharani]

lol.. y u so defensive? Its obvious that the seam bowling side has the advantage coz seamers can do something with both the newball and the old ball and the spinners need an older ball to be more successful, unless the next generation of spinners prove us wrong by doing better with a newer ball.

But it is a futile exercise anyways, coz there is always a place for both seam and spin bowling in cricket and there is no necessity to make them exclusive.

 

[Red]

Wasim and Imran were both pretty good with the old ball.

 

[watson]

Lohmann was a seam up medium fast bowler who relied on accuracy and the natural seam movement on 1880s wickets. Barnes bowled primarily leg cutters but could vary his pace enough to get flight and drift. I've not included Barnes as he was between a seam and swing bowler, I've not included Lohmann as he's got a weird record and it'd distract from the conversation, as you have successfully done, so top job there

I know we've had this discussion ad nauseum, but Barnes was at heart a twirley-man rather than a seamer.

Barnes in conversation with David Frith;

Did he cut the ball like Underwood? "Cut it!" He glared, and again I wondered if he might hurl something at me. "I spun the ball!" Those long, gnarled fingers gyrated around imaginary leather. He bowled a brisk medium, but applied spin, with excruciating accuracy.

Was Barnes the greatest bowler of all time? | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

Lohmann was one of those 19th century 'medium spinners' that bowled off-breaks.

Jack Blackam quoted in the Hamilton Spectator,1893;

'What sort of bowler gives you most chance of stumping?

'Left-banded bowlers like Ferris, Peel, or Briggs, with a break from the leg side. They are very easy to take, and almost anybody could keep wicket to them.'

'And who are the most difficult men to take? Fast bowlers, I suppose?

'Oh no, fast bowlers are not half so difficult to take as those of medium pace and a big break back from the off like Giffen, Turner, Spofforth, or Lohmann. The most difficult balls to take are those that come between the bat and the off-stump, and perhaps the most difficult ball of all is that which comes over the middle stamp. As a rule you can't see It, and the best thing for the wicket-keeper to do is to point his hands to where he thinks the ball is coming, and at the same time raise himself up so that if be misses it will strike him on the body, and not on the head.'

09 Sep 1893 - AN INTERVIEW WITH BLACKHAM. - Trove

 

[Howe_zat]

What we call spin bowling is about more than putting revs on the ball. The lingo has changed.

 

[watson]

What we call spin bowling is about more than putting revs on the ball. The lingo has changed.

The following diagrams show that Barnes was basically a finger-spinner;

http://prestonvillage.hitscricket.c...Spin it like Sydney Barnes - Richard Wyer.pdf

The closest modern bowler to Barnes in terms of grip and spin on the ball would probably be Ajantha Mendis. Check-out the leg-break that cleans-up Dravid, and then the off-break that bowls Laxman between bat-pad. Both batsman have no idea what's going on. Brilliant.

 

[the big bambino]

Judging by the depth of his slips, at his fastest Barnes was about Bedser's pace.

 

[Coronis]

Just curious, to make sure I'm not off in my own world here, but in Tests (yes I know its not a question in ODI's.... though Amla is an underrated ODI batsman), who do you believe is the better batsman, Amla or AB?

 

[Gob]

Just curious, to make sure I'm not off in my own world here, but in Tests (yes I know its not a question in ODI's.... though Amla is an underrated ODI batsman), who do you believe is the better batsman, Amla or AB?

Amla easy

 

[Coronis]

My thoughts too, however whilst AB always seems to be so hyped, I never hear anything about Amla.

 

[Howe_zat]

I've been doing a draft on reddit with 8 players which is an all-time draft designed to finish with a simming tournament on DBC14.

Despite not getting one of the first few picks I've done pretty well because outside of the streamlining of this process on CW people have some ideas that are a little odd to our ears

After 11 rounds

My team

1. Len Hutton
2. Sunil Gavaskar
3. Wally Hammond
4. Denis Compton
5. Allan Border
6. Keith Miller
7. Imran Khan
8. Alan Knot
9. Dennis Lillee
10. Muttiah Muralitharan
11. Bill O'Reilly

Other sides

'Concordians CC'

1. Graeme Smith
2. Alastair Cook
3. Ricky Ponting
4. Ken Barrington
5. Steve Waugh
6. Andy Flower
7. Wilfred Rhodes
8. Shane Warne
9. Fred Trueman
10. Allan Donald
11. Sydney Barnes

'Swingers CC'

1. AB De Villiers
2. Mike Hussey
3. Hashim Amla
4. Jacques Kallis
5. Kevin Pietersen
6. Michael Clarke
7. Shaun Pollock
8. Chaminda Vaas
9. Anil Kumble
10. Dale Steyn
11. Michael Holding

'Kana CC'

1. Adam Gilchrist
2. Saeed Anwar
3. Sourav Ganguly
4. Shiv Chanderpaul
5. Yuvraj Singh
6. Lance Klusener
7. Andrew Flintoff
8. Abdul Razzaq
9. Daniel Vettori
10. Wasim Akram
11. Makhaya Ntini

'INter Yernan CC'

1. Jack Hobbs
2. Geoffrey Boycott
3. Viv Richards
4. Everton Weekes
5. Frank Worrell
6. Clyde Walcott
7. Basil D'Olivera
8. WG Grace
9. Headley Verity
10. James Anderson
11. Curtly Ambrose

'Debaser CC'

1. Matthew Hayden
2. Virender Sehwag
3. Kumar Sangakkara
4. Sachin Tendulkar
5. Brian Lara
6. Shakib Al Hasan
7. Harbhajan Singh
8. Shoiab Akhtar
9. Shane Bond
10. Courtney Walsh
11. Glenn McGrath

''Heavy Balls CC'

1. Sanath Jayasuriya
2. Alec Stewart
3. Rahul Dravid
4. Javed Miandad
5. Greg Chappell
6. Mohammed Yusuf
7. Garry Sobers
8. Mahela Jayawardene
9. Kapil Dev
10. Richard Hadlee
11. Waqar Younis

'The Streakers CC'

1. Herbert Sutcliffe
2. Barry Richards
3. Don Bradman
4. George Headley
5. Graeme Pollock
6. Hanif Mohammed
7. Aubrey Faulkner
8. Ian Botham
9. Mike Procter
10. George Lohmann
11. Malcolm Marshall

 

[morgieb]

Oh dear

Only like two of the other sides are even remotely normal. Your side would probably all at least compete for the Top 2/3 XI's of all-time.

 

[mr_mister]

Mahela @ 8 tbf Team 8 could still compete in a simming comp as it'd be pretty hard for them to bowled out cheaply with Hadlee at 10. And they do have 5 bowlers who took 200+ wickets each

 

[morgieb]

Mahela @ 8 tbf Team 8 could still compete in a simming comp as it'd be pretty hard for them to bowled out cheaply with Hadlee at 10. And they do have 5 bowlers who took 200+ wickets each

No keeper though. With an actual keeper instead of Hanif it'd look pretty gun, yeah.

Do those guys even know cricket?

 

[mr_mister]

Oh I meant Team 7 I just said Team 8 coz of Mahela being at 8. In fact I'd be interested in finding out how that team goes

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

After 11 rounds

My team

1. Len Hutton
2. Sunil Gavaskar
3. Wally Hammond
4. Denis Compton
5. Allan Border
6. Keith Miller
7. Imran Khan
8. Alan Knot
9. Dennis Lillee
10. Muttiah Muralitharan
11. Bill O'Reilly

Other sides

'Concordians CC'

1. Graeme Smith
2. Alastair Cook
3. Ricky Ponting
4. Ken Barrington
5. Steve Waugh
6. Andy Flower
7. Wilfred Rhodes
8. Shane Warne
9. Fred Trueman
10. Allan Donald
11. Sydney Barnes

'Swingers CC'

1. AB De Villiers
2. Mike Hussey
3. Hashim Amla
4. Jacques Kallis
5. Kevin Pietersen
6. Michael Clarke
7. Shaun Pollock
8. Chaminda Vaas
9. Anil Kumble
10. Dale Steyn
11. Michael Holding

'Kana CC'

1. Adam Gilchrist
2. Saeed Anwar
3. Sourav Ganguly
4. Shiv Chanderpaul
5. Yuvraj Singh
6. Lance Klusener
7. Andrew Flintoff
8. Abdul Razzaq
9. Daniel Vettori
10. Wasim Akram
11. Makhaya Ntini

'INter Yernan CC'

1. Jack Hobbs
2. Geoffrey Boycott
3. Viv Richards
4. Everton Weekes
5. Frank Worrell
6. Clyde Walcott
7. Basil D'Olivera
8. WG Grace
9. Headley Verity
10. James Anderson
11. Curtly Ambrose

'Debaser CC'

1. Matthew Hayden
2. Virender Sehwag
3. Kumar Sangakkara
4. Sachin Tendulkar
5. Brian Lara
6. Shakib Al Hasan
7. Harbhajan Singh
8. Shoiab Akhtar
9. Shane Bond
10. Courtney Walsh
11. Glenn McGrath

''Heavy Balls CC'

1. Sanath Jayasuriya
2. Alec Stewart
3. Rahul Dravid
4. Javed Miandad
5. Greg Chappell
6. Mohammed Yusuf
7. Garry Sobers
8. Mahela Jayawardene
9. Kapil Dev
10. Richard Hadlee
11. Waqar Younis

'The Streakers CC'

1. Herbert Sutcliffe
2. Barry Richards
3. Don Bradman
4. George Headley
5. Graeme Pollock
6. Hanif Mohammed
7. Aubrey Faulkner
8. Ian Botham
9. Mike Procter
10. George Lohmann
11. Malcolm Marshall

Howe vs streakers cc will be a good one. Someone actually managed to include both Bradman and Marshall in the same team. Kana is opening with AB?

 

[morgieb]

Howe vs streakers cc will be a good one. Someone actually managed to include both Bradman and Marshall in the same team. Kana is opening with AB?

You mean Swingers?

TBF, De Villiers actually started his career as an opener.

 

[harsh.ag]

Makes amaze team. Goes for Hanif as keeper

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

You mean Swingers?

TBF, De Villiers actually started his career as an opener.

Yeah Swingers. Kana's team actually is a pretty good ODI side