The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Red]

England

Marcus Trescothick
Nick Knight
Joe Root
Kevin Pietersen
Neil Fairbrother
Andrew Flintoff
Ian Botham
Joss Buttler +
Graeme Swann
James Anderson
Darren Gough

 

[Zinzan]

A Spot of Dick

Barry Richards
Mark Richardson
Richie Richardson
Viv Richards
Dick Richardson (c)
Dick Spooner
Richie Benaud
Richard Hadlee
Dick Lilley+
Richard Collinge
Andrew Caddick

Lol, nice backdoor entry strategy to allow Caddick to poke his dick in.

My only complaint is the Dave Richardson missing out on the gloves.

 

[Zinzan]

England

Marcus Trescothick
Nick Knight
Joe Root
Kevin Pietersen
Neil Fairbrother
Andrew Flintoff
Ian Botham
Joss Buttler +
Graeme Swann
James Anderson
Darren Gough

Your rankings for those 5 ODI sides you've rolled out thus far? And can you do your NZ XI cheers.

 

[Red]

And can you do your NZ XI cheers.

Martin Guptill
Stephen Fleming *
Kane Williamson
Martin Crowe
Ross Taylor
Brendon McCullum +
Chris Cairns
Chris Harris (Boult to replace him soon enough but he's a fave of mine)
Dan Vettori
Richard Hadlee
Shane Bond

 

[Red]

Your rankings for those 5 ODI sides you've rolled out thus far? .

Without too much thought...

1. Australia = South Africa
3. West Indies
4. England = India

 

[Red]

Pakistan

Saeed Anwar
Zaheer Abbas
Mohammed Yousuf
Javed Miandad
Inzamam ul Haq
Shahid Afridi
Imran Khan *
Wasim Akram
Moin Khan +
Saeed Ajmal
Waqar Younis

 

[Zinzan]

Martin Guptill
Stephen Fleming *
Kane Williamson
Martin Crowe
Ross Taylor
Brendon McCullum +
Chris Cairns
Chris Harris (Boult to replace him soon enough but he's a fave of mine)
Dan Vettori
Richard Hadlee
Shane Bond

Mine....

Glenn Turner
Martin Guptill
KW 6
Martin Crowe*
Ross Taylor
Brendon McCullum+
Chris Cairns 4
Dan Vettori 5
Richard Hadlee 1
Kyle Mills 2
Shane Bond 3

Or if you wanted to make the batting depth to be ridiculous ... Replace Mills with Oram (who was a fine ODI bowler) and bat at 8.

Fleming was a great captain, but not nearly enough good enough with the bat to make my ATG NZ side especially ahead of Glenn Turner (who I assume you forgot about), and it's not like you'd be missing much tactically with Crowe as skipper.

Assuming I stuck with Mills > Oram, my 2nd NZ XI would be...

Nathan Astle 6
Jesse Ryder 7
Stephen Fleming*
Roger Twose 9
Scott Styris 5
Craig McMillan 8
Chris Harris 4
Jacob Oram 3
Ian Smith+
Trent Boult 1
Ewen Chatfield 2

Handy side that....

Does matter that you don't have a specialist spinner with Harris, Astle & Styris's bowling. How's the number of bowling options...

 

[Red]

I didn't forget Turner, his record (average) is pretty awesome. TBH though I don't know much about him, and it's hard to gauge how those guys who played in the first era of ODIs would go nowadays. I remember Bill Lawry or Ian Chappell saying they didn't really think much about tactics in the early ODIs, and they just played them like tests.

 

[Red]

NZ would be a hard side to beat. Definitely plenty of ODI all time talent to match the other teams. Any team with Bond and Hadlee opening the bowling, Williamson, Crowe and Taylor in the middle order, and the hitting power of Cairns and McCullum is not going to be a pushover.

 

[Zinzan]

Without too much thought...

1. Australia = South Africa
3. West Indies
4. England = India

Cool what about with NZ, SL & Pakistan included in the mix?

 

[Zinzan]

I didn't forget Turner, his record (average) is pretty awesome. TBH though I don't know much about him, and it's hard to gauge how those guys who played in the first era of ODIs would go nowadays. I remember Bill Lawry or Ian Chappell saying they didn't really think much about tactics in the early ODIs, and they just played them like tests.

Turner was about as good as ODI batsmen got in those early years. Even discounting his amazing average of near 50, his SR of 68 was above the likes of Greenidge (64) from that same era and he also arguably pioneered the 'chip-shot' for 2 between the in & outfield.

 

[Red]

It's actually pretty hard to judge I reckon. I can't see any reason why most of them couldn't beat any of the others TBH.

England and India would be the two weaker teams. England have been dire at ODI cricket forever and India just don't have the bowlers. Throw a blanket over the rest.

 

[Red]

Turner was about as good as ODI batsmen got in those early years. Even discounting his amazing average of near 50, his SR of 68 was above the likes of Greenidge (64) from that same era and he also arguably pioneered the 'chip-shot' for 2 between the in & outfield.

Fair enough. Probably a worthy inclusion at the expense of Fleming in my side.

 

[Zinzan]

It's actually pretty hard to judge I reckon. I can't see any reason why most of them couldn't beat any of the others TBH.

England and India would be the two weaker teams I reckon. England have been dire at ODI cricket forever and India just don't have the bowlers. Throw a blanket over the rest.

Yeah I was wondering if I was just biased thinking NZ looks quite a bit stronger than both England & India, even if India do have Tendulkar & Dhoni who were obviously ATG XI material.

 

[Zinzan]

Fair enough. Probably a worthy inclusion at the expense of Fleming in my side.

Here's some rare footage of Turner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkJE0hiFXdc Unfortunately it's the very back-end of his 140 vs. SL, but hopefully enough of a glimpse to show he was ahead of his time.

 

[Zinzan]

Pakistan

Saeed Anwar
Zaheer Abbas
Mohammed Yousuf
Javed Miandad
Inzamam ul Haq
Shahid Afridi
Imran Khan *
Wasim Akram
Moin Khan +
Saeed Ajmal
Waqar Younis

Ajmal over Saqlain? Ouch. The rest is fair enough although I'd be tempted to bat Ijaz Ahmed or Saleem Malik over Yousuf in ODIs, both their records in the eras they played were better than Yousuf's for mine. Also Imran should bat ahead of Afridi in mine.

 

[smash84]

Zaheer Abbas opening wouldn't be very good for himself or the side

 

[honestbharani]

Quiet day with the flu. Might do a few national ODI sides for a time killer.

Australia

Adam Gilchrist +
Shane Watson (5)
Ricky Ponting
Mark Waugh
Andrew Symonds (5)
Mike Hussey
Steve Waugh (5)
Mitchell Starc (2)
Shane Warne (4)
Brett Lee (3)
Glenn McGrath (1)

Flexible combo designed to win. Including the Steve Waugh who was a gun ODI bowler, early career. Great death bowler. Starc included on the basis that he is already worthy, and partnering him with McGrath and Lee gives the pace attack everything. Mark Waugh bats out of position to accommodate Watson at the top. M.Waugh, Ponting and Symonds give as good an inner fielding ring as you'd find. Watson, Waugh and Symonds sharing the fifth bowling duties is feasible. Notable omission is Bevan, but I feel Hussey played a similar role with the bat, but was a better hitter, and better fielder.

Great side. Only change I would do is bat Bevan at 4 instead of having Maugh out of position there.

 

[honestbharani]

India

Sachin Tendulkar
Rohit Sharma
Saurav Ganguly
Virat Kohli
MS Dhoni
Yuvraj Singh
Kapil Dev
Ravi Ashwin
Anil Kumble
Javagal Srinath
Zaheer Khan

Mine is

Sachin
Sourav
Virat
Yuvi
MSD (c) (wk)
Raina
Kapil
Bhajji
Kumble
Srinath
Zak

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah I was wondering if I was just biased thinking NZ looks quite a bit stronger than both England & India, even if India do have Tendulkar & Dhoni who were obviously ATG XI material.