The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Red]

Gideon Haigh selected Bob Simpson for his ATG Australian XI when part of the expert panel that picked the ATG XIs for ESPN. His team went;

01. VictorTrumper
02. Bob Simpson
03. Don Bradman
04. Greg Chappell
05. Allan Border
06. Keith Miller
07. Adam Gilchrist
08. Shane Warne
09. Alan Davidson
10. Dennis Lillee
11. Bill O'Reilly

Except Gideon, pls. Miller to #5 and Border to #6.

 

[Red]

Gideon Haigh selected Bob Simpson for his ATG Australian XI when part of the expert panel that picked the ATG XIs for ESPN. His team went;

01. VictorTrumper
02. Bob Simpson
03. Don Bradman
04. Greg Chappell
05. Allan Border
06. Keith Miller
07. Adam Gilchrist
08. Shane Warne
09. Alan Davidson
10. Dennis Lillee
11. Bill O'Reilly

Just cos I'm bored, reckon my team'd give his a run:

Bill Lawry
Arthur Morris
Ricky Ponting
Stan McCabe
Neil Harvey
Steve Waugh
Ian Healy
Ray Lindwall
Clarrie Grimmett
Bill Johnston
Glenn McGrath

 

[mr_mister]

No offence to Miller or Botham but neither are needed in their country's ATG Xi

 

[watson]

No offence to Miller or Botham but neither are needed in their country's ATG Xi

David Frith's ATG XI;

01. Victor Trumper,
02. Arthur Morris
03. Don Bradman
04. Greg Chappell
05. Neil Harvey
06. Adam Gilchrist
07. Jack Gregory
08. Shane Warne
09. Ray Lindwall
10. Dennis Lillee
11. Bill O'Reilly

Don't actually like the team too much because both Gilchrist and Gregory are out of position. But I do see the merit in selecting Jack Gregory.

 

[mr_mister]

What was Gregory's position? He batted most of his innings in tests at 9 yet averaged 36 so could easily handle a top 6 role

Basically what I'm getting at maybe this is a case where he can be seen as a floater

 

[mr_mister]

I also think batting out of position isn't that big a deal and shouldn't affect your ability to make runs but I'm in the minority there

 

[Red]

If you are gonna pick Gregory, why not just pick Miller. Clearly a better batsman and arguably a better bowler.

 

[mr_mister]

I don't think Gregory is necessary either as I feel Lillee-Mcgrath-Warne-O'Reilly is enough to rout any opposition but since I've chosen him in the australian draft thread let's talk him up some more


He scored 2 test tons and 7 test fifties

He scored the tons batting at 4 and 9. And got the fifties opening the batting, 4, 5, 7 and 8. He also batted at 3 and 6 but never got fifties there. Basically this guy did not have a batting position so I'm curious as to where Watson wanted him to bat

 

[Red]

I think Gregory was a gun. But I think Miller was better.

I like Miller in an ATG team because Bradman at 3 and Gilchrist at 7 nullify whatever perceived batting weakness Miller brings (FTR I think he's as good as anyone as his FC record shows)

Plus, it means you can have McGrath/Lillee plus Warne/O'Reilly and with Miller still have three quicks. 5 bowling options is so much better than 4.

 

[mr_mister]

Hmm fair point actually. Bradman is worth 2 batsmen pretty much so Australia can afford to play an AR. I'd argue Alan Davidson over Miller though for his Left arm bowling.

But for England they don't have a Bradman or even a Gilly so I reckon Botham's batting really isn't good enough

 

[mr_mister]

Also Waugh/Border depending on where you wanna go are a solid 5th bowling option at least Wally Hammond level

 

[mr_mister]

It's never talked about but Steve Waugh nearly took 300 international wickets

 

[smash84]

It's never talked about but Steve Waugh nearly took 300 international wickets

300 test wickets?

 

[Red]

Steve Waugh was a really good bowler but he stopped bowling regularly fairly early in his career.

 

[mr_mister]

I don't see the relevance of either of the last 2 posts to what I was saying, and Red Hill if by early you mean 10 years into his career then sure

 

[Red]

The relevance was in the context of him playing in an ATG test team as an all rounder.

In 88 he took a big bowling workload and struggled with the bat (low 30s). Wasn't til 89 when he hardly bowled at all and he showed how good a test batsman he could be. His peak as a batsman (93-retirement) saw him hardly bowl at all.

Incidentally, remember Waugh went full God mode in the 89 Ashes and then was dropped after that (for MWaugh). So his career kind of went - bits and pieces all rounder - God like 89 mode - couple of years struggle - dominated from 93 - 04.

If you isolate his career from 93 - 04, his average was 56 over ten years, including averaging 59 against the Ambrose/Walsh/Bishop WIs

 

[mr_mister]

why does it matter for these threads? Can't we assume they're at their peak with bat and ball when playing in this hypothetical situation


If we have to him at one point in his career I'll take 1994 where he took 15 wickets @ 15 and hit 677 runs @ 67


sounds like a test AR at the peak of his powers to me and he basically 30 by then so well into his career

 

[Zinzan]

It's never talked about but Steve Waugh nearly took 300 international wickets

I like how you conveniently mention "international wickets' when only 92 of them came from 168 tests. He's pretty much in the same boat as a bowler as Greg Chappell for mine. Both handy as ODI bowlers in the 70s/80s & 90s, but really just part-timers when it comes to Test cricket.

 

[mr_mister]

in his own words his bowling kept him in the test team for his first however many matches (til he scored a century)


and how is it convenient? Its obvious I was referring to tests and ODIs to make a point. I'm trying to make a point about him being able to dismiss quality batsmen

 

[Victor Ian]

Who is the Greatest All Time First Class player ever? Is it still Bradman by a long way or does Grace get close or even take the honours. Is it someone else entirely, such as that Mynn dude?