*Official* Pakistan in England and Ireland 2016

[Compton]

But Borthwick wouldn't have been playing instead of Moeen, who lest we forget actually took the two biggest wickets in the second innings, he would have been playing instead of Ballance. Would people really back this bloke on effective debut (don't) to have made all the difference? Give me a break.

So because he doesn't have many caps he wouldn't have made a difference? Sweet logic.

Maybe the match could have gone differently, maybe it wouldn't have. But to act like there's no chance Borthwick would have made a difference is just silly.

 

[MW1304]

So because he doesn't have many caps he wouldn't have made a difference? Sweet logic.

Maybe the match could have gone differently, maybe it wouldn't have. But to act like there's no chance Borthwick would have made a difference is just silly.

Of course it could have done but to me it doesn't seem likely at all. Yes the fact that he's only played one Test, as a bowler, factors in to my thinking. It isn't like he was barging down the door demanding to be selected and nobody bar Scaly seemed to be particularly irked about the fact that he was left out until we've lost the game. This seems totally wistful. The biggest reason we lost this Test is because the batsmen we rely on most either gave their wicket away whilst well placed or failed to make any impression on a chase that in hindsight could have been managed with one defining knock.

Oh and some great bowling. For what it's worth I don't think I would have picked Ballance either but he's probably least at fault for his dismissals of all the batsmen and looked pretty good while he was there.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Of course it could have done but to me it doesn't seem likely at all. Yes the fact that he's only played one Test, as a bowler, factors in to my thinking. It isn't like he was barging down the door demanding to be selected and nobody bar Scaly seemed to be particularly irked about the fact that he was left out until we've lost the game. This seems totally wistful. The biggest reason we lost this Test is because the batsmen we rely on most either gave their wicket away whilst well placed or failed to make any impression on a chase that in hindsight could have been managed with one defining knock.

Oh and some great bowling. For what it's worth I don't think I would have picked Ballance either but he's probably least at fault for his dismissals of all the batsmen and looked pretty good while he was there.

He's scored the most FC runs of anyone in the world over the past 18-24 months whatever it was from the early stages of this county season. Has experience in New Zealand and Sri Lanka (was good in NZ and nowt special in SL) Averaged 40+ and scored 1000+ runs season after season for Durham at one of the least roady grounds you'll get. Played one Test, played for the Lions/A side and did well. He also bowls better than part-time leg spin and is a very good slip fielder. Oh and he bats at 3.

He was perfect to come in against Sri Lanka, never mind Pakistan. Each Test they don't select him makes them look even more stupid, particularly when they've picked the air fairy Vince and selected Balance based on one innings at one of the flattest pitches in the UK and possibly not selected Borthwick based on three innings.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Neither are Pakistan's.... the single biggest difference was simply Shah. The difference a quality spinner makes too a side is so huge.

.

Which 3 do you think are not test class? I can agree with you on two. Who's the third one?

 

[Black_Warrior]

Time for the old, our batting cost us the test matche lets drop three bowlers then.

I don't think they are dropping 3 bowlers..1 is more like it - Anderson for Finn which was expected.

 

[Daemon]

Borthwick's lost form now it appears. Pity.

Who's next in line after Hales? Hildreth? Robson?

 

[StephenZA]

Which 3 do you think are not test class? I can agree with you on two. Who's the third one?

Mohammad Hafeez; Should not be opening, whether he could bat 6 is another question. (will he be able to bowl again soon? make a big difference)
Shan Masood; Do not know much about this man, but does not inspire confidence as an opener so far.
Azhar Ali; Rate Ali highly... but has not really pushed on seems a little inconsistent.
Younis Khan; What more can one say...
Misbah-ul-Haq; Absolute rock of the team. (Do see a problem with him and Younus on genuine fast pitches though... age takes its toll on all of us.)
Asad Shafiq; Similar to Ali, but seems to be a bit more consistent... needs to convert more of his 50 into hundreds.

Ignoring Younis and Misbah, all of the players seem to be showing good 40ish avg but considering they play on UAE flat pitches a lot, think they should all be avg 45+.
I did not realize that Ali and Shafiq of Pakistan were over the age of 30. Thought that they were late 20`s.

Is their any young and up and coming talent in Pakistan to keep them on an upward trajectory?

 

[Black_Warrior]

Mohammad Hafeez; Should not be opening, whether he could bat 6 is another question. (will he be able to bowl again soon? make a big difference)
Shan Masood; Do not know much about this man, but does not inspire confidence as an opener so far.
Azhar Ali; Rate Ali highly... but has not really pushed on seems a little inconsistent.
Younis Khan; What more can one say...
Misbah-ul-Haq; Absolute rock of the team. (Do see a problem with him and Younus on genuine fast pitches though... age takes its toll on all of us.)
Asad Shafiq; Similar to Ali, but seems to be a bit more consistent... needs to convert more of his 50 into hundreds.

Ignoring Younis and Misbah, all of the players seem to be showing good 40ish avg but considering they play on UAE flat pitches a lot, think they should all be avg 45+.
I did not realize that Ali and Shafiq of Pakistan were over the age of 30. Thought that they were late 20`s.

Is their any young and up and coming talent in Pakistan to keep them on an upward trajectory?

There's nothing to disagree with you there. But that still makes 2 batsmen not test class
Another important thing to note is that Pakistan top 7 have the highest combined average over the last few years among all the test nations top 7. This is one of the strongest test middle orders you can have today.

Shafiq is someone I have a lot of hope and time for. He should be averaging higher, however he also bats at 6 and given Pakistan's tail, he does have to bat with 4 of the worst test batsmen. He himself has expressed frustration about this and hopefully his time will come soon. Technically he looks the most solid and looked in great touch. His 45 at a crucial time pretty much saved the match for Pakistan..I have seen various Pak sides with bigger names crumble for 100 all out in similar circumstances and his partnership made the difference in target between 280 and 180.

Is their any young and up and coming talent in Pakistan to keep them on an upward trajectory?

Not a lot but the one guy I have a lot of hope pinned on is Babar Azam. I don't recall the last time a batsman came in Pakistan with so much positive buzz and expectation around him. He is currently captaining the Pakistan A side in England..which tells you what plans PCB have for him. He is a regular in the ODI squad and I am hoping he has a good ODI series.

 

[StephenZA]

There's nothing to disagree with you there. But that still makes 2 batsmen not test class
Another important thing to note is that Pakistan top 7 have the highest combined average over the last few years among all the test nations top 7. This is one of the strongest test middle orders you can have today.

I`m not to sure about that one.... would definitely have to see numbers to back that up...

Ironically I could probably do an almost identical piece on the England top 6, Cook and Root being obvious class, and the rest showing promise but not quite... but then they bat down to 9. Has been saving them... most frustrating thing watching them in SA when we did get on top.... that was a SA thing until a couple of years ago. All-rounders everywhere.

Edit added results; Yes I just worked it out (yes I`m that sad) based on current top 6 (not 7 because Pak last # 7 avg`s 7 so thought that would be a bit unfair) and...
Aus way ahead on 54.6, then SA 47.9 (but that's false because of Cooks 70 avg, if I take his FC of 41 is, then SA drop to 43.3); Pak, 42.3; India 41.9, Eng 41.3... (NZ a disappointing 34.5 and I did not bother with WI...)

Obviously this does not take into account most recent form and I`m choosing latest line-ups....

India for me is probably the most surprising... but pretty close top 6 across the board.

 

[Black_Warrior]

I'll try to find the stats when I get home.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Here is the stat I was referring to from 1st Jan 2014 to 31st Dec 2015

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

1-7

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...4;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

 

[StephenZA]

Here is the stat I was referring to from 1st Jan 2014 to 31st Dec 2015

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

1-7

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Man SA sucked last year.... did not get past 250 once after the WI tour.

 

[Black_Warrior]

True but they also got hard done by the Bangladesh tour being rained out. Pakistan had a lot of centuries and double centuries when they played Bangladesh.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Borthwick's lost form now it appears. Pity.

Who's next in line after Hales? Hildreth? Robson?

No he had 3 FC innings over a month and didn't score much, was run out in one of them. Made 60odd (top scorer) and whatever he scores today against Lancashire.

 

[Top_Cat]

Errr why do they want a leggy? Obvious statement is obvious, but they don't have anyone nearly as good as Yasir.

Classic English cricket top-down selection; we'll have what they're having. It's the only explanation for Mahmood, Schofield and the 90s.

 

[91Jmay]

Not really. Rashid is the back up spinner, the front line spinner has been really ordinary for 12+ months. Hardly a bolt out of the nether is it, Rash has been a limited overs fixture for 18 months and played test matches recently.

 

[Top_Cat]

Yeah but one can never miss an opportunity to rib the English about the 90s.

Also England are going to go on and win the series.

 

[godofcricket]

Before the series began I was expecting a 3-1 or at least a 2-1 to England like most people here but having seen the 1st test I don't think it will be that easy for either side to win as I thought the body language of the Pakistani players especially Misbah's was very positive throughout. They all seemed to be enjoying their cricket and are up for the challenge, also the way they celebrated after winning indicates this series means a lot to them so I believe they are up for it. Really looking forward to the rest of the series.

 

[smash84]

England still have a great chance. Just let the ball move a nanometer and rise above penis height and see pak fall like a pack of cards. IIRC Pakistan's record at old Trafford is pretty bad.

 

[FBU]

Andrew Strauss to sack England's selectors at the end of the season after Jimmy Anderson's controversial omission at Lord's | Daily Mail Online