The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[harsh.ag]

Select your ATG team that cannot include:

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman
Sobers
Gilchrist
Knott
Marshall
McGrath
Warne
Murali

WG Grace
Sunil Gavaskar
Viv Richards
Sachin Tendulkar
Brian Lara
Jacques Kallis
Les Ames +
Imran Khan*
Richard Hadlee
Dale Steyn
Bill O'Reilly

 

[The Battlers Prince]

1. WG Grace\•
2. Barry Richards\
3. George Headley\
4. Jacques Kallis\•
5. Charles Macartney\•
6. Allan Border\ (c)
7. Andy Flower\+
8. Wasim Akram•\
9. Joel Garner•
10. Clarrie Grimmett•
11. Sydney Barnes•

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Pick an XI that MUST include:
Gavaskar
Hobbs
Bradman
Richards
Tendulkar
Sobers
Knott
Warne
Marshall
Lillee
Murali

 

[Zinzan]

1. WG Grace\•
2. Barry Richards\
3. George Headley\
4. Jacques Kallis\•
5. Charles Macartney\•
6. Allan Border\ (c)
7. Andy Flower\+
8. Wasim Akram•\
9. Joel Garner•
10. Clarrie Grimmett•
11. Sydney Barnes•

Wow, neither Hadlee & Imran can even make what is essentially your 2nd XI? And to make matters worse you hail from Hadlee's domain.

 

[Red]

Select your ATG team that cannot include:

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman
Sobers
Gilchrist
Knott
Marshall
McGrath
Warne
Murali

I'll leave Sachin out too.


Barry Richards
Sunil Gavaskar
Kumar Sangakkara
Graham Pollock
Brian Lara
Victor Trumper
Keith Miller
Richard Hadlee
Wasim Akram
Bill O'Reilly
Curtly Ambrose

 

[watson]

5 x Bowler attack with Lillee - who is almost a must.

Ames kept extensively for Tich Freeman and the rapid leg-spinner DVP Wright (all Kent men), so he'd be very good standing-up to Benaud and Barnes.

Also couldn't ignore Sangakkara's post keeping average of 67 over 86 Test marches. His Away average during those 86 Test matches was 64. The numbers speak for themselves.

Since the reliable and brilliant Kallis is no longer at No.6 the tail needs to bat long. So....

01. Sunil Gavaskar
02. Victor Trumper
03. Kumar Sangakkara
04. Sachin Tendulkar
05. Viv Richards
06. Keith Miller
07. Les Ames +
08. Imran Khan
09. Richie Benaud *
10. Dennis Lillee
11. Sydney Barnes

 

[The Battlers Prince]

Wow, neither Hadlee & Imran can even make what is essentially your 2nd XI? And to make matters worse you hail from Hadlee's domain.

They put a good case for inclusion of course, as does Lillee or Miller who would be twelfth man for me. But they'd be vying for Wasim or Barnes' role. Not many do the same role that Joel Garner fills better. That intimidating quick

 

[watson]

They put a good case for inclusion of course, as does Lillee or Miller who would be twelfth man for me. But they'd be vying for Wasim or Barnes' role. Not many do the same role that Joel Garner fills better. That intimidating quick

A new ball attack of Garner and Akram is undeniably great.

But I think that the reason McGrath, Hadlee, and Lillee get into so many ATG sides is that it's hard to leave out a fast bowler who bowls classic line n' length at the off-stump. It's true that Lillee was a tear away in his early years, but at his peak between 1974 to 1977 he bowled immaculately. He also had as many tricks as Hadlee, but no fast bowler has bettered Lillee in the art of psycholgical warfare on the batsman.

Mike Brearley -

One day in Perth, I played a defensive push and Dennis Lillee picked up the ball in his follow-through, shaking his hand, as if I'd stung him with the ferocity of my drive. I enjoyed that. Dennis could be genuinely and collegially funny. He was also the best bowler I played against.

He was the perfect fast bowler: quick, hostile and accurate. He naturally swung the ball away, which is so much more lethal when done at his kind of pace. And he had a magnificent physique. As with Allan Donald more recently, he was so well proportioned that when you came up close he seemed taller than he actually was. His run-up and action were immaculate, left arm high and bent at elbow and wrist, menacing acceleration (with occasional speed wobble) and a full follow-through. He would always prefer to attack than defend. He was courageous and persistent, coming back with the same energy at the end of a day as he'd had at the beginning. He was also shrewd, a master of bowling as pitches got slower and the bounce lower, as well, of course, as when there was bounce and movement. He was a captain's dream.

Don Bennett, for many years Middlesex's coach, watched a Lillee masterclass at Lord's one day during his prime, when he happily demonstrated aspects of his art to the young cricketers present.

In the middle of the Nursery Ground, he bowled and bowled, calling out before each ball - ''outswinger to hit off stump'', ''outswinger to hit middle stump'', ''inswinger to hit leg stump''. Don said he bowled an over at good pace in which every ball did exactly what Lillee had intended.

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[Coronis]

I'll leave Sachin out too.


Barry Richards
Sunil Gavaskar
Kumar Sangakkara
Graham Pollock
Brian Lara
Victor Trumper
Keith Miller
Richard Hadlee
Wasim Akram
Bill O'Reilly
Curtly Ambrose

Graeme!!! I should look into why it bothers me so much...

 

[Red]

Graeme, Graham, all the same.

 

[Howe_zat]

Does Joe Root make England's best middle order?

When Cricinfo writers selected their all-time England XI in 2009 they put Pietersen in it, who at that time averaged 50 after 54 tests. I would argue that despite KP being brilliant at the start of his career and inconsistent afterwards Root has had an even better first four years - averaging 56 after 44 tests - so if they did the same thing now they'd probably play him at five instead.

Hobbs, Hutton, Hammond, Barrington, Root, Boham, Knott, Trueman, Larwood, Underwood, Barnes.

It's hard to argue against Denis Compton deserving that place instead but the Cricinfo thing makes me think it's closer than at first glance.

 

[The Battlers Prince]

Doing things statistically is not iron clad proof. In saying that though, I do feel Root will deserve the spot above KP, if not yet then soon.
Hard for me to say as I am a KP fan

 

[watson]

KP has the advantage of scoring 1144 runs at 45.76 during his 3 Ashes trips to Australia. Top score of 227 at Adelaide.

When Joe Root has cracked his first ton in Australia and done some damage then he'll seriously challenge KP's spot I reckon.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Does Joe Root make England's best middle order?

When Cricinfo writers selected their all-time England XI in 2009 they put Pietersen in it, who at that time averaged 50 after 54 tests. I would argue that despite KP being brilliant at the start of his career and inconsistent afterwards Root has had an even better first four years - averaging 56 after 44 tests - so if they did the same thing now they'd probably play him at five instead.

Hobbs, Hutton, Hammond, Barrington, Root, Boham, Knott, Trueman, Larwood, Underwood, Barnes.

It's hard to argue against Denis Compton deserving that place instead but the Cricinfo thing makes me think it's closer than at first glance.

CI just plain dropped the ball on KP because he can weave a spell (as could Compton) and they needed a player post-Botham to make sure people younger than 40 took the exercise seriously. After that it all went too pear shaped but this was always part of the deal

Compton's record after 44 tests: 3,464 runs @ 52.48 with 14 tons + a war in between (KP 3,895 runs @ 49.30 with 14 tons)

Disclosure: I have KP and Piers Morgan blocked on twitter

 

[Red]

KP's record against most opponents in most conditions is very very good.

I personally think Root is an absolute gun and the best of the newer batsmen.

 

[Red]

Nonetheless, that Cricinfo English side's middle order was a bit odd. Agreed with Hobbs and Hutton opening and Hammond at #3. I'd have replaced Barrington and KP at 4 and 5 with Peter May and Compton (just personal preferences really).

 

[ankitj]

While chatting up with a mate, an idea crossed my mind. How will a combined XI from West Indies of 70's / 80's + Australia of 90's / 00's look like?

Gordon Greenidge
Matthew Hayden
Ricky Ponting
Vivian Richards
Clive Lloyd *
Steve Waugh
Adam Gilchrist +
Shane Warne
Malcolm Marshall
Joel Garner
Glenn McGrath

Torn between Garner and Holding. But what a sight will that be!

 

[Zinzan]

I get the impression most here seem to rate Holding as the 3rd best of the modern Windies quicks after MM & Curtly, but for me it's always been Garner marginally.

 

[Zinzan]

While chatting up with a mate, an idea crossed my mind. How will a combined XI from West Indies of 70's / 80's + Australia of 90's / 00's look like?

Gordon Greenidge
Matthew Hayden
Ricky Ponting
Vivian Richards
Clive Lloyd *
Steve Waugh
Adam Gilchrist +
Shane Warne
Malcolm Marshall
Joel Garner
Glenn McGrath

Torn between Garner and Holding. But what a sight will that be!

Strong side.

Assume you ruled-out Curtly, even though he did in fact debut in '88.

That aside, I'd take Border marginally ahead of Lloyd, remembering he played until 1993-94.

 

[ankitj]

Strong side.

Assume you ruled-out Curtly, even though he did in fact debut in '88.

That aside, I'd take Border marginally ahead of Lloyd, remembering he played until 1993-94.

Yeah, I considered both Border and Curtly as outside of eligible eras.