***Official*** New Zealand Domestic Season 2015/16

[Immenso]

Good sensible move by ND to play Watling as a batsman and have Seiffert keep.

With 6 months until BJs next international match he doesn't need to stay sharp behind the stumps. Seiffert gets game time, BJ gets to sharpen his batting in the top order again.

 

[Kippax]

So what is Popli trying to get out of his back shuffle trigger movement exactly, batting pundits? Just a yard extra of seeing time?

Not sure it's great to have a guy playing today's dismissal ball like he does verging on Test selection tbh. Get forward ****.

 

[Bahnz]

If Ronchi hadn't gone completely to turd as a batsman in the last year I'd be 100% behind playing BJ at 5 as a specialist bat and bringing Ronchi into the team. But with Derek de B as the probably next best option behind the stumps I think it's best not nudging BJ around too much.

 

[Hurricane]

So what is Popli trying to get out of his back shuffle trigger movement exactly, batting pundits? Just a yard extra of seeing time?

Not sure it's great to have a guy playing today's dismissal ball like he does verging on Test selection tbh. Get forward ****.

I used to have a backwards movement. It gives you more time to see the ball like you say. More importantly if you have a fear of getting out at short forward square leg by popping up a bouncer, it conquers that. You will get on top of everything that is fired in short at you.

The young Chris Cairns had a backwards movement and it served him well I thought. I don't know if he maintained it.

Ultimately I abandoned my backwards movement as I went down a grade and didn't have to face the Pearce Cup bowlers at practice any more.

I think it is easier to be a stroke maker if you don't go back first. I would really only advocate it for grafters and openers.

 

[Jord]

Isn't the theory that you're getting your feet moving just as the bowler releases the ball, at which point you're able to get your feet to it better than you would if you were on your heels? All trigger movements come with their risks

Going Across (or Back and Across) - raises the potential that you'll be trapped in front, may make you more susceptible to chasing wide of off deliveries, leg stump yorker becomes a threat.
Going forward - raises the potential that you'll play around your pad because you've plonked it down the line, raises the potential that you'll get caught driving/defending on the up against a shorter deliver
Going back - raises the potential that late movement will get you, makes the yorker harder to play

But really, batsmen of all different styles, shapes and trigger movements have been successful. Steve Smith with his accelerated move across his stumps has been doing awesomely with it so long as the ball isn't moving early and I'd say that would be a death nail in the coffin of any aspiring English or NZ batsman.

 

[Kippax]

 

[straw man]

Like a shorter version of Martin Guptill

The initial movements across the crease, and then the way he brings the bat down from high outside off across himself towards the onside. As evidenced by his angled bat defense first ball, where he's playing from off to leg despite the ball being outside off. Commensurate with that, looks set up to hit lovely on-drives from off-stump (a couple around 20 seconds) but you have to worry about the lbw with the straighter ones.

Still looks a good player though.

Ok the back-and-across is more pronounced today but I'm still claiming that

 

[Jord]

The worst one I can remember recently was the English chap, Gary Ballance who was batting in their top order and almost treading on his stumps when he went backwards. Trent Boult was loving that with the Duke, getting late swing and having all that time for the ball to move off its line.

 

[SteveNZ]

The worst one I can remember recently was the English chap, Gary Ballance who was batting in their top order and almost treading on his stumps when he went backwards. Trent Boult was loving that with the Duke, getting late swing and having all that time for the ball to move off its line.

Yeah that was painful to watch...actually no it wasn't I enjoyed it. Ironic last name.

His issue, in my opinion, was he was going back and across but not being forward from deep in his crease. He was nicking out to swinging HVs because he was hanging back from that position rather than pushing forward from the movement. Sounds tangled but basically the back and across movement is absolutely fine as long as you're prepared to forward press when you get there, and stay back if it's short. If you're getting forward and over your front knee, that trigger movement is only serving to get your feet moving positively and giving you a bit more time to play. I can't name too many batsmen who have done it because I look closer at bowlers, but there'll be a lot of them.

I wouldn't pay too much heed to Popli's trigger movement or position at the crease in that case. Plainly doesn't watch the ball well enough and tries to hit one moving slightly away through mid-wicket. Not a good sign if you want to play higher.

 

[Dan]

Yeah the problem with going back -- and transferring your weight back (a la Ballance, Chapman, perhaps Popli here but I haven't seen the footage in question) -- is that it becomes very hard to transfer your weight to the front foot afterwards, hence getting trapped on the crease etc. Especially a problem against genuine pace, not being able to get forward nearly quickly enough.

So going back isn't an issue in and of itself, the issue is transferring your weight so far back in a trigger.

As a side-note, apparently Kuggs was bowling serious heat in the pink ball game. Perhaps in part for being told to unleash for his 6 overs per innings, but if he gets it pushing 150 with the heaviness of ball he bowls...

 

[Kippax]

if he gets it pushing 150 with the heaviness of ball he bowls...

You can tell that to the judge if you like, Bevan Small. Not sure I'm liking how you're suddenly a weirdly strong source of pink passion and ND inside scoops. I want to make sure they hold more water than the Tim Seifert and Zak Gibson tales.

 

[Bahnz]

You can tell that to the judge if you like, Bevan Small. Not sure I'm liking how you're suddenly a weirdly strong source of pink passion and ND inside scoops. I want to make sure they hold more water than the Tim Seifert and Zak Gibson tales.

Haha, yeah gotta be a bit skeptical about any claims of epic pace following the speed readings that turned up for Zac "future-150k" Gibson. Having said that, Kugglejuggle was clocking higher speeds than Milne or Ferguson during the GPSS, so it wouldn't be a complete shock to see him nudging it up into the high-140's.

 

[Flem274*]

Kuggs has always been capable of bowling sharp. Sustaining it for more than 2 overs and actually delivering good balls were the issues.

And staying out of trouble it seems.

 

[Kippax]

Kuggs' 140-145kph outswingers that hit the spot will get international batsmen out, sure. Whole spells in the late 140s and troubling them for sheer pace though?

Andrew Mathieson was supposed to come in from the wilderness and blow the Plunket Shield away with West Indian height and sheer late 140s pace at one stage. Now a 26yo and averaging 46 after 22 FC games.

 

[NZTailender]

Just for comparison

Under McCullum

Trent Boult

Without Wagner: 14 matches, 49 Wickets @ 33.4
With Wagner: 17 Matches, 72 wickets @ 26.2
Overall: 31 Matches, 121 Wickets @ 29.1

Southee

Without Wagner: 12 Matches, 30 Wickets @ 45
With Wagner: 15 Matches, 71 Wickets @ 23.7
Overall: 27 Matches, 101 Wickets @ 30.2

Wagner in that time frame

17 Matches, 70 Wickets @ 31.3

And it's no surprise that McCullum's record with Wagner,adverse to without is much different too.

Correlation does not imply causation etc.

 

[Hurricane]

I reckon if I took a speed gun to Plunket games I could make a mint selling the results to you lads.

 

[Zinzan]

Kuggs' 140-145kph outswingers that hit the spot will get international batsmen out, sure. Whole spells in the late 140s and troubling them for sheer pace though?

I hope I'm wrong about Kuggs', but based on what I've seen of him he does strike me as a bit of a 'soft' cricketer. Happy to be convinced otherwise.

 

[Bahnz]

Oh dear, Tastle run out without facing a ball, and from the footage it looks pretty clear that he'd comfortably made his ground too.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Correlation does not imply causation etc.

Sure, but it may imply that the attack as a whole is better when all three of them play. It's clearly the best combination.

 

[Kippax]

I hope I'm wrong about Kuggs', but based on what I've seen of him he does strike me as a bit of a 'soft' cricketer. Happy to be convinced otherwise.

One of his stated aims back when he was a Firebird was to never be seen playing the short ball like a ***** iirc, but that's clearly not the definition of 'mentally soft' you had in mind.

Kuggeleijn's own knock was top drawer, confirming his status as an emerging all-rounder. His season average now sits in excess of 40 and he was equally stoic in the face of some hostile bowling from Wagner.

"I like to think I'd never back down to that sort of stuff. I prefer to get hurt and keep batting than look like a ***** and get out," he said.