Adam Voges average watch

[the big bambino]

Well true enough but everyone did so I can't hold that against him. Look I'd even rate Taylor and Roach but didn't mention them bcos I'm guessing some here would just go pffft if I did. Overall I'm just grateful Voges and Usman have really gone gangbusters. I never expected that irrespective of the opposition they faced. (Remember people were even speculating we'd struggle v BD if that series went ahead). So rated against my initial expectations I am really impressed by their form.

 

[Adders]

Adders y u bother

Good question........lesson learnt here though.

he struggled against 3 of those 5 bowlers you named though?

TBF facing that English trio in English conditions is probably as tough as it gets atm and he was still the 4th highest run scorer for the Aussies.

At the end of the day it is really too soon to predict just how good he is or will end up, but no matter what the quality of the bowling or the flatness of the wickets he has still had to score those runs and whilst you can add a bit of context to it, that average is still pretty remarkable after 19 innings.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Well true enough but everyone did so I can't hold that against him. Look I'd even rate Taylor and Roach but didn't mention them bcos I'm guessing some here would just go pffft if I did. Overall I'm just grateful Voges and Usman have really gone gangbusters. I never expected that irrespective of the opposition they faced. (Remember people were even speculating we'd struggle v BD if that series went ahead). So rated against my initial expectations I am really impressed by their form.

they'd be right to do so, because despite being decent bowlers at times in the past, they did not bowl well in that series

Facing Bishoo in his debut series though was probably the toughest bowling he's faced, considering conditions

 

[the big bambino]

Hmmm. Thought Taylor went ok but yeah something's up with Roach.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Taylor was bowling brilliantly in WI, but lacked the consistency in Aus despite being good at times

and yeah Roach was way out of sorts

 

[aussie tragic]

Some perspective, Khawaja has scored 644 runs @ 128.80 in his last 6 innings

 

[Daemon]

Boult was also mostly rubbish against Voges

 

[mr_mister]

His first 6 scores in the Ashes last year:


31, 1, 25, 16, 0 and 1



It's amazing how close he must have came to being dropped before those last couple of fifties he got to make his Ashes average not look completely terrible

 

[AndrewB]

I know that Vengasarkar had about 10 matches in 86 where he averaged 100+ and managed to score more than a 1000 runs

He scored 1055 in 13 innings (5 NO) at an average of 131.87

Highest average while scoring 1000 runs seems to be 206.60 by Sangakkara (100*, 156*, 8, 6, 200*, 222*, 57, 192, 92)

 

[mr_mister]

Bradman never eclipsed that?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Bradman never eclipsed that?

don't think so

he was pretty much just consistently god-like, rather than having god-like patches mixed in with normal patches

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

On the subject of runs per test/not outs, I think Voges has been pretty limited in terms of how many runs he could possibly have scored in his last 7 tests. He's been not out at the point of declaration or barely able to bat because other people made so many runs on a number of occasions, so you can't really hold that against him in comparing his purple patch to that of other batsmen. Of course a batsman batting at 5 and coming in with 400 on the board isn't going to score a double century, and someone still there when the team declares or last dismissed chasing runs with the tail couldn't have done much more. And he's not batted in the second innings that frequently. So not super relevant I don't think.

Most valid criticism of Voges is definitely that he had a mediocre Ashes, but I think his last couple of years of cricket have been pretty remarkable and comparable to your Root/Smith/Williamson types.

 

[Dan]

Also if you're coming in at 4/400 on a regular basis, it is significantly easier to make runs. I mean, the case in point there is Eoin Morgan's ton vs. India in 2011. Comes in at 3/374 and makes one of the most facile hundreds in Test history (I believe those are the exact words Spark uses to describe it).

Obviously you still have to make the runs, and kudos to Voges for doing that, but I don't think anybody -- even TJB -- would argue that Voges has made tough runs in achieving those figures. He did with his couple of 50s in England, but there have certainly been a lot of facile, cashing-in innings against tired, demoralised attacks.

Still skill and value in that, obvs. I mean, after Morgan was dismissed (4/596), Ravi Bopara goes and gets himself out lbw for 7.

 

[Howe_zat]

Also if you're coming in at 4/400 on a regular basis, it is significantly easier to make runs. I mean, the case in point there is Eoin Morgan's ton vs. India in 2011. Comes in at 3/374 and makes one of the most facile hundreds in Test history (I believe those are the exact words Spark uses to describe it).

Obviously you still have to make the runs, and kudos to Voges for doing that, but I don't think anybody -- even TJB -- would argue that Voges has made tough runs in achieving those figures. He did with his couple of 50s in England, but there have certainly been a lot of facile, cashing-in innings against tired, demoralised attacks.

Still skill and value in that, obvs. I mean, after Morgan was dismissed (4/596), Ravi Bopara goes and gets himself out lbw for 7.

I think the score when you come in is a part of what makes run scoring easier though. It's a big part because it heavily impacts on the fitness/intensity/aggression/etc of the opposition but then main reason I remember Morgan's ton as ordinary is that he was dropped twice. And that despite being an attacking number six he was happy to just coast along in Cook's shadow for the entire partnership.

One thing that made Voges' summer impressive was that he was often forcing the scoring rate up too. Despite coming in at 250/2 he wasn't just part of the scenery, he was doing the best thing he could to make the advantage count.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Yeah for sure. But I also think anyone who ever averaged 100 in whatever timeframe also made a lot of easy runs. Like Clarke in 2012 came in at some tougher situations like 3 for under 100 a lot, but other people usually made big runs when he did too. Realistically if you're averaging 100 chances are you've got people forming partnerships with you, flat pitches to work with and overall things are going pretty well in most of your games.

 

[Dan]

One thing that made Voges' summer impressive was that he was often forcing the scoring rate up too. Despite coming in at 250/2 he wasn't just part of the scenery, he was doing the best thing he could to make the advantage count.

Oh, yeah, of course -- which is why I certainly don't mean to write off his achievements as something any half-decent FC bat could have come up with given the same opportunities and circumstances, because that plainly isn't the case. He's been remarkable in coming at 3/whatever and turning it from a strong position to an unassailable one.

There's definite skill and value in him doing so; we've seen enough lol-apses after good starts to attest to the value of having a very good #5 who can cash in and continue building big totals. But at the same time, we have to accept that the context is different than if he was averaging 100 after coming in at 3/30 on a regular basis, and adjust our opinions of him accordingly.

 

[Victor Ian]

So judge him in the context of # 5 batsmen - he is ****ting all over those who have come before. He comes in with lots of runs on the board, and scores even more runs at a faster pace - when he should be throwing his wicket away - he scores the runs at the required pace and stays not out or gets the big big score. When he comes in earlier - he does not bow to pressure and gets the runs . He is an enigma. One that I am happy is playing for Australia rather than elsewhere.

 

[Howe_zat]

So judge him in the context of # 5 batsmen - he is ****ting all over those who have come before. He comes in with lots of runs on the board, and scores even more runs at a faster pace - when he should be throwing his wicket away - he scores the runs at the required pace and stays not out or gets the big big score. When he comes in earlier - he does not bow to pressure and gets the runs . He is an enigma. One that I am happy is playing for Australia rather than elsewhere.

Nah, averaging ~100 over a year happens. Clarke's 2012 and Bell's 2010-11 has been mentioned (both scored as a #5) but we've also had Sangakkara and Mathews in 2013-14, Amla in 2010 and Williamson in 2015 average 90+ over this kind of time frame.

What's unique is that he is doing it right at the start of his Test career. But that's connected to him also being the debutant with the most FC runs for ages. Which suggests the only thing that makes him more special than these players is not getting picked soon enough.

 

[Furball]

Bell I believe averaged 135 in 2011, with 5 hundreds from 8 Tests.

 

[Burgey]

He scored 1055 in 13 innings (5 NO) at an average of 131.87

Highest average while scoring 1000 runs seems to be 206.60 by Sangakkara (100*, 156*, 8, 6, 200*, 222*, 57, 192, 92)

Vengsarkar a chronically under rated player IMO. Was. A joy to warch