***Official*** Australia in New Zealand 2016

[Starfighter]

Hearing Voges averages over 100 can anyone confirm?

105 Last time I looked.

 

[Zinzan]

Without swing Southee really hasn't been a whole lot better than Bracewell this test. They've tried a similar approach to getting wickets - patience and accuracy. Southee generally does it better obviously.

So if Southee's reduced to doing that role then why not get someone like Wagner for something different?

Yeah, my point is the same folks who rightfully call Bracewell fans for their one-eyed comments do the same with Southee. How often do we hear about Southee bowling 'without luck'? Could it be he's just not as good as people make out?

 

[jonbrooks]

Man, this has been an ass poundage of epic proportions. What can the Black Caps do now?

 

[Bahnz]

Don't necessarily disagree with any of this, but let's not pretend Southee fan-bois don't do exactly the same with him. The amount of times I hear Southee was incredibly unlucky to average 60 with the ball in such & such a series because he's always apparently bowls without luck is at least up with anything you hear about Bracewell.

Difference is Southee hasn't averaged 50 in test cricket over the last 4 years like Durgh has.

 

[Zinzan]

Any trainspotters on whether 4 caught/bowled in a test innings is a record?

 

[Howe_zat]

I've seen 8 dismissals in this series. First 4 NZers nicking behind the wicket and the last 4 Australians chipping to fielders in front of the wicket.

Seems a very different pitch

 

[hendrix]

Unless Anderson scores a hundred he's done nowhere near enough to be retained over Santner imo. His bowling has been ok for a fourth/fifth seamer, that's all.

Also Bracewell. They're going to go calling him unlucky and want to retain him, but when there was seam movement on day 1 I was wishing for Henry and when it was flat yesterday I was wishing for Wagner. Can always bring Wagner in for Craig, but I'd prefer both.

Yeah the constant whines from Flem and Ian Smith about how well Doug's bowling and how unlucky he's been are becoming really tired at this point. Truth is he's an average domestic journeyman who doesn't have the height, pace, swing, bounce or even really the control needed to make a go of it at this level. Throw in his constant no-balling (which absolutely would've contributed to Voges reprieve) and his dreadful underachievement with the bat, and his continued retention in the side has become farcical at this point. Yes he's had his moments of bad luck this season. But you can say the same for Boult and Southee in the past, the diference was that they were good enough to keep creating opportunities. Bracewell isn't.

Think we should probably stop blaming our poor performance on the guys that were never likely to make that much of a difference to be honest. Guys like Bracewell, Anderson, Craig and Nicholls haven't really done any worse than expected.

Southee and Boult need to cop a bit. But the main issue has been the batsmen, and the team strategy:

1. Yet again, the whole top order did not look properly prepared for test cricket.
- Defending at balls well outside off stump (Latham, Nicholls). Leave the ball ffs, learn where your stumps are.
- Playing way too many shots (Williamson), as if it's still an ODI.
- The fielders have dropped catches in the slips and haven't been "awake" in the way you need to concentrate for long periods of time in test cricket.

This has been a recurring theme for this team and as much as Hesson is supposed to be a guy who dots his Is, there has been a consistent failure to have the players taking personal responsibility for their preparation. It is not good enough.

2. The requests for green pitches is not aggressive and betrays a lack of confidence. It's not trusting our skills to do a job. We need to trust our bowlers to take wickets with a little help, not a lot of help, and we need to stop placing results in the hands of a coin toss.

3. The senior men in the team have not delivered the results that were expected of them over the last year. Southee at times has bowled well but not got the wickets. Boult has been quite poor since his injury. Williamson has been good but there have been times when he has got out to lazy dismissals. Ross Taylor has battled poor form. McCullum has been pretty rubbish in the last year or so. Watling has not delivered what we expected and have required of him. Southee is STILL showing less than zero application with the bat.

 

[hendrix]

Yeah, my point is the same folks who rightfully call Bracewell fans for their one-eyed comments do the same with Southee. How often do we hear about Southee bowling 'without luck'? Could it be he's just not as good as people make out?

this is true, addressed above.

 

[straw man]

239. That's not much bigger than 7 is it?

 

[BeeGee]

379 is a handy lead, imo.

 

[Zinzan]

Difference is Southee hasn't averaged 50 in test cricket over the last 4 years like Durgh has.

I agree the extent of the accommodation isn't quite as exaggerated with Southee, although he is averaging around 37 in the last 18 months or so.

 

[Flem274*]

Even when he's bowling well all he's really doing is performing the same sort of role that Nathan Astle did in the 90's - keeping it tight and hoping that the batsmen gets frustrated and does something stupid.

that's the job he's been given.

look, i don't think he's going to make it either. i just think he cops far too much stick on here for changing himself from a swing bowler to that bang it in bouncer pie thrower because mchesson told him to, and then into Mr Boring who bowls long spells because again that's what the team requires.

meanwhile those same posters pretend jeetan patel is worth five minutes of our time when discussing test spinners and both the nz side and posters bend over backwards to shelter the two glory boys who haven't done anything since England. boult sent down a shower of **** all summer and southee is bowling like it's 2010 all over again with how "unlucky" he is. loopy 128kph line and length isn't unlucky, it's southee bowling **** in between some spells of decency to hide it. he's a far cry from 2013 and boult isn't in the same solar system as 2015.

this isn't a world class bowling attack anymore, and people need to stop blaming it all on doug bracewell and mark craig. matt henry and ed nuttall aren't third seamers, they're the swing bowling new ball replacements for southee and boult if they don't get their acts together.

neil wagner should come in because he's so damn good at cleaning up any mess on a flat pitch, but apart from that there isn't much else to do except congratulate the australian batsmen and help southee and boult find their world class ways again.

and why the **** isn't adam milne playing this shield round?

#flop

 

[jonbrooks]

Think we should probably stop blaming our poor performance on the guys that were never likely to make that much of a difference to be honest. Guys like Bracewell, Anderson, Craig and Nicholls haven't really done any worse than expected.

Southee and Boult need to cop a bit. But the main issue has been the batsmen, and the team strategy:

1. Yet again, the whole top order did not look properly prepared for test cricket.
- Defending at balls well outside off stump (Latham, Nicholls). Leave the ball ffs, learn where your stumps are.
- Playing way too many shots (Williamson), as if it's still an ODI.
- The fielders have dropped catches in the slips and haven't been "awake" in the way you need to concentrate for long periods of time in test cricket.

This has been a recurring theme for this team and as much as Hesson is supposed to be a guy who dots his Is, there has been a consistent failure to have the players taking personal responsibility for their preparation. It is not good enough.

2. The requests for green pitches is not aggressive and betrays a lack of confidence. It's not trusting our skills to do a job. We need to trust our bowlers to take wickets with a little help, not a lot of help, and we need to stop placing results in the hands of a coin toss.

3. The senior men in the team have not delivered the results that were expected of them over the last year. Southee at times has bowled well but not got the wickets. Boult has been quite poor since his injury. Williamson has been good but there have been times when he has got out to lazy dismissals. Ross Taylor has battled poor form. McCullum has been pretty rubbish in the last year or so. Watling has not delivered what we expected and have required of him. Southee is STILL showing less than zero application with the bat.

100% agreement!

 

[Zinzan]

I've seen 8 dismissals in this series. First 4 NZers nicking behind the wicket and the last 4 Australians chipping to fielders in front of the wicket.

Seems a very different pitch

Yup, this is a completely different wicket after 5-6 hours of sun on the pitch.

 

[Stace]

Well at least Voges didn't beat KW's 242, now time for a special knock again from the boy wonder.

 

[jonbrooks]

379 is a handy lead, imo.

Handy?! LOL!

 

[Zinzan]

Man, this has been an ass poundage of epic proportions. What can the Black Caps do now?

Fight.

 

[straw man]

Think we should probably stop blaming our poor performance on the guys that were never likely to make that much of a difference to be honest. Guys like Bracewell, Anderson, Craig and Nicholls haven't really done any worse than expected.

Southee and Boult need to cop a bit. But the main issue has been the batsmen, and the team strategy:

1. Yet again, the whole top order did not look properly prepared for test cricket.
- Defending at balls well outside off stump (Latham, Nicholls). Leave the ball ffs, learn where your stumps are.
- Playing way too many shots (Williamson), as if it's still an ODI.
- The fielders have dropped catches in the slips and haven't been "awake" in the way you need to concentrate for long periods of time in test cricket.

This has been a recurring theme for this team and as much as Hesson is supposed to be a guy who dots his Is, there has been a consistent failure to have the players taking personal responsibility for their preparation. It is not good enough.

2. The requests for green pitches is not aggressive and betrays a lack of confidence. It's not trusting our skills to do a job. We need to trust our bowlers to take wickets with a little help, not a lot of help, and we need to stop placing results in the hands of a coin toss.

3. The senior men in the team have not delivered the results that were expected of them over the last year. Southee at times has bowled well but not got the wickets. Boult has been quite poor since his injury. Williamson has been good but there have been times when he has got out to lazy dismissals. Ross Taylor has battled poor form. McCullum has been pretty rubbish in the last year or so. Watling has not delivered what we expected and have required of him. Southee is STILL showing less than zero application with the bat.

Agree with all of this, especially first bolded, but not the second bolded. Don't think there's anything wrong with requesting green-ish wickets - that's what NZ is good for. To me the problem is less that conditions are good for seam/swing early and more the other part of that picture, which is the extreme extent to which many of the country's pitches flatten out as matches progress. Without the latter, the former wouldn't be as bad.

 

[Howe_zat]

MIXLR.COM/CRICKETWEB super over

 

[Starfighter]

If a wicket falls here...