***Official*** England in South Africa 2015/16

[StephenZA]

Not sure he beat kohli's record in terms of age but not sure how many games kohli had played at that point.

QDK is/was younger. Records galore for de Kock and South Africa | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

What is more likely to win you a game Duminy's bowling or millers striking ability?

I would also argue miller is the better fielder between the 2.

I think that Duminy brings better balance to the team, without losing to much when compared to Miller. If we get another genuine all-rounder that gives us confidence then Millers striking power becomes more important.... but this is just about difference of opinion. The big point is though neither is really solving our big problem of a quality all-rounder (Oh for the likes of Pollock, Klusener etc... (won`t mention Kallis))!

 

[vcs]

QDK is/was younger. Records galore for de Kock and South Africa | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo


I think that Duminy brings better balance to the team, without losing to much when compared to Miller. If we get another genuine all-rounder that gives us confidence then Millers striking power becomes more important.... but this is just about difference of opinion. The big point is though neither is really solving our big problem of a quality all-rounder (Oh for the likes of Pollock, Klusener etc... (won`t mention Kallis))!

Not bad, I suspected that Amla would be pretty close.

I should work for Cricinfo.

 

[Marius]

Interesting SA A side selected, fairly strong.

Nice to see some recognition for Jon-Jon Smuts. Shamsi must also be close to a full call-up.

Not too sure about Magala but he doesn't seem too bad, looks like he bowls with a heavy ball and can give it a tonk.

Strong SA A team to face England
11 February 2016, 11:10

Morne van Wyk of the Sunfoil Dolphins will captain South Africa A in their T20 tour match against England at Boland Park, Paarl, next Wednesday, February 17, 2016.

The match squad includes several members of the Proteas T20 squad for the ICC World Twenty20 in David Miller, Farhaan Behardien and Aaron Phangiso, while Wayne Parnell and Beuran Hendricks return after injury lay-offs.

“This is a very important match for the players involved,” commented Cricket South Africa (CSA) selection committee convener, Linda Zondi. “Although our squad for the ICC tournament has already been announced, injuries are a fact of life and it is important that possible replacements are fit and in good form.”

There are first opportunities at this level for the Warriors duo of Jon-Jon Smuts and Sisanda Magala.

SA A squad: Morne van Wyk (Sunfoil Dolphins, capt), Farhaan Behardien (The Unlimited Titans), Theunis de Bruyn (The Unlimited Titans), Beuran Hendricks (Cape Cobras), Reeza Hendricks (VKB Knights), Sisanda Magala (Warriors), David Miller (Sunfoil Dolphins), Wayne Parnell (Cape Cobras), Aaron Phangiso (bizhub Highveld Lions), Andile Phehlukwayo (Sunfoil Dolphins), Tabraiz Shamsi (The Unlimited Titans), Jon-Jon Smuts (Warriors).

Strong SA A team to face England - SuperSport - Cricket

 

[Dan]

What is more likely to win you a game Duminy's bowling or millers striking ability?

I would also argue miller is the better fielder between the 2.

You're completely missing the point. The comparison should be between the opportunity costs of forgoing either Duminy or Miller respectively.

If you play Miller with a relatively sane team balance (i.e. Berhardien @ 7), you forego a sixth bowler for Miller's striking ability.
If you keep Duminy in the team, again with a relatively sane team balance, you have a sixth bowling option but don't have Miller's explosive hitting in the lower order.

Basically, Stefan9, the question comes down to how valuable is it to have someone better than ABdV to bowl if a frontliner has a bad day (e.g. Tahir this series), or if Berhardien's jammy pies get smashed. Considering the strength of South Africa's ODI batting, I'd rather have a sixth bowler who is vaguely competent with the ball. Especially since Miller has only really had one genuinely good year with the bat anyway.

I think (and the selectors tend to agree with me), that having the sixth bowling option is worth more than a potential few extra runs at the end of the innings.

The obvious solution, let's face it, is to play both anyway:
1. Amla
2. de Kock
3. du Plessis
4. de Villiers
5. Duminy
6. Miller
7. Berhardien

 

[StephenZA]

You're completely missing the point. The comparison should be between the opportunity costs of forgoing either Duminy or Miller respectively.

If you play Miller with a relatively sane team balance (i.e. Berhardien @ 7), you forego a sixth bowler for Miller's striking ability.
If you keep Duminy in the team, again with a relatively sane team balance, you have a sixth bowling option but don't have Miller's explosive hitting in the lower order.

Basically, Stefan9, the question comes down to how valuable is it to have someone better than ABdV to bowl if a frontliner has a bad day (e.g. Tahir this series), or if Berhardien's jammy pies get smashed. Considering the strength of South Africa's ODI batting, I'd rather have a sixth bowler who is vaguely competent with the ball. Especially since Miller has only really had one genuinely good year with the bat anyway.

I think (and the selectors tend to agree with me), that having the sixth bowling option is worth more than a potential few extra runs at the end of the innings.

The obvious solution, let's face it, is to play both anyway:
1. Amla
2. de Kock
3. du Plessis
4. de Villiers
5. Duminy
6. Miller
7. Berhardien

The problem is this leaves us in the exact same position we where in at the beginning of the series (Rillee instead of Miller) but principally the same problem , are Duminy and Behardien good enough for a combined 5th/6th bowler role or must we play a 5th bowling/all-rounder. Then we have Miller/Rillee at 5 (if you drop Duminy) and 6. Berhardien. With Morris/Wiese at 7.

I personally don't have the confidence in Miller, Rillee has not shown his potential . And that leaves Duminy in the team, with his bowling potential.

By the way if we are going to change the team I`m still of the opinion we go for Elgar.

With the following structure
1. Amla
2. de Kock
3. Elgar
4. du Plessis
5. de Villiers
6. Berhardien
7. Morris

Why? Because if we have no genuine quality all-rounders then I would rather create a more stable/extended top-order (Elgar does this). With AB coming in at 5, where he has the ability to rescue an innings at 125/4 or take the other team apart at 250/4 in the last 10. AB is the only batsmen we have that can play both those roles... (Elgar also has his darts which is nice if needed).

 

[Stefan9]

When was the last time duminy has been able to get away with any decent figures on any pitch but a rank turner? His bowling has been terrible for a year. He doesn't offer match winning/turning ability with the bat and goes for plenty and is an inferior fielder to miller.

The fact that selectors agree with you isn't really a plus seeing as these are the same guys who stuck with stian van zyl as an opener and only picked stephen cook when the season was done and dropped qdk from the test team based on odi form.

I would this batting lineup:

1.QDK
2.Amla
3.Faf
4.AB
5.Miller
6.Behardien
7.Wiese

 

[Dan]

Too much icing, not enough cake Stefan. Miller coming in to bat at 3rd drop is not going to give South Africa any form of success.

Duminy is valuable for as long as you project his overs to go for less than the same number of overs to be bowled by ABdV, unless you pick literally no batting whatsoever and have David Miller coming in at five, which is self-evidently stupid to anybody who actually watches the game of cricket. You need someone who can rotate the strike at #5 in this team. Miller is many things, but a strike rotator is not one of them.

And if we're talking about ineffective bowlers, Wiese goes at 6.93 an over in ODI cricket, which is nearly a full run per over higher than Duminy's apparently-unacceptable figures. And you'll be asking Wiese to bowl more overs than you would of Duminy.

 

[Dan]

The problem is this leaves us in the exact same position we where in at the beginning of the series (Rillee instead of Miller) but principally the same problem , are Duminy and Behardien good enough for a combined 5th/6th bowler role or must we play a 5th bowling/all-rounder. Then we have Miller/Rillee at 5 (if you drop Duminy) and 6. Berhardien. With Morris/Wiese at 7.

I personally don't have the confidence in Miller, Rillee has not shown his potential . And that leaves Duminy in the team, with his bowling potential.

Then drop Berhardien.

5. Duminy
6. Miller
7. Wiese/Morris

The tl;dr is that in modern ODI cricket you really need a sixth bowling option in your team. They don't have to be brilliant with the ball, but they do need to be vaguely competent. At the moment, Duminy is the best player you have for that role, and he's a good enough cake-y bat to keep the strike rotating and play his role. I mean, he's a far better ODI cricketer than he is a Test one.

EDIT: Obviously you can use Berhardien in that sixth bowler role, but he's more icing than cake, so you still have the problem of leaving a cake at #5.

 

[Stefan9]

Too much icing, not enough cake Stefan. Miller coming in to bat at 3rd drop is not going to give South Africa any form of success.

Duminy is valuable for as long as you project his overs to go for less than the same number of overs to be bowled by ABdV, unless you pick literally no batting whatsoever and have David Miller coming in at five, which is self-evidently stupid to anybody who actually watches the game of cricket. You need someone who can rotate the strike at #5 in this team. Miller is many things, but a strike rotator is not one of them.

And if we're talking about ineffective bowlers, Wiese goes at 6.93 an over in ODI cricket, which is nearly a full run per over higher than Duminy's apparently-unacceptable figures. And you'll be asking Wiese to bowl more overs than you would of Duminy.

Wiese has only played 4 odi's so rather soon be judging. Also you are taking duminy's whole odi career bowling into account, he used to be a very effective odi bowler but that has not been the case since he changed his action.

I am perfectly happy with miller at 5, can disagree if you like. I have seen him play innings where he has need to rotate the strike if needed.

 

[weldone]

SA should have defended against Jordan during the last few overs of the last match. They don't want him to be dropped for Broad.

 

[weldone]

And Miller should come in for Behardien imo.

1.QDK, 2. Amla, 3. DuP, 4. AB, 5. JP, 6. Miller, 7. Wiese, 8. Rabada, 9. Tahir, 10. Abbott, 11. Morkel

 

[Stefan9]

SA win the toss and will bowl.

2 changes for england broad and woakes in, willey and jordan dropped. Morkel rested and morris in for SA.

 

[WalkingWicket]

South Africa to enjoy some Chris Woakes-flavoured paste this evening...

 

[Stefan9]

Same pitch as the one that was used for the 438 game today.

 

[glosfan94]

Just gonna put this out there, I know the saying if it isn't broken don't fix it, but thoughts on this for a team (and more specifically the batting order):

1 Hales, 2 Moeen, 3 Taylor, 4 Root, 5 Morgan, 6 Buttler, 7 Bopara, & 4 bowlers

Opinions??

 

[Prince EWS]

Just gonna put this out there, I know the saying if it isn't broken don't fix it, but thoughts on this for a team (and more specifically the batting order):

1 Hales, 2 Moeen, 3 Taylor, 4 Root, 5 Morgan, 6 Buttler, 7 Bopara, & 4 bowlers

Opinions??

Recallng Bopara is bat**** insane but the rest of that order is more or less what I've advocated for a while.

Roy deserves a longer go but I just don't really have any faith.

 

[Stefan9]

Just gonna put this out there, I know the saying if it isn't broken don't fix it, but thoughts on this for a team (and more specifically the batting order):

1 Hales, 2 Moeen, 3 Taylor, 4 Root, 5 Morgan, 6 Buttler, 7 Bopara, & 4 bowlers

Opinions??

Butler is too low at 6 imho.

 

[testcricketer]

Fudge rabada is such a talent, he might even be the most talented young bowler in world cricket

 

[glosfan94]

Recallng Bopara is bat**** insane but the rest of that order is more or less what I've advocated for a while.

Roy deserves a longer go but I just don't really have any faith.

I think it's either Bopara or Stokes and in limited overs I'd prefer Bopara, he's used to batting at 6 or 7 whereas Stokes doesn't really seem to have much of a clue there imo, and Bopara gives us a different bowling option to the standard fast-medium bowlers we have. Plus he is very economical and hard to score runs off.

I like Roy but the thing with Roy is he's just told to go in and wack it and very very rarely bats longer than 10 overs, Moeen can do the same job to more or less the same ability and Moeen likes to score quickly at the start too. Also Moeen's bowling option is necessary I feel, otherwise we'll be relying on Root's off spin whereas Root should be told to concentrate on his batting.

 

[kykweer.proteas]

Well What about Parnell and Pangiso, they were afterall given Proteas contracts... man **** it.