***Official*** England in South Africa 2015/16

[Prince EWS]

Still haven't managed to catch any highlights but scanning the Cricinfo commentary, am I right in thinking Amla tracked Moeen so he bowled it over his head?

I'm still not really sure whether Moeen did it on purpose or it just slipped out. Probably the latter, with him trying to adjust his delivery after Amla stepped out but losing his grip on the ball.

 

[theegyptian]

Personally I feel the Jordan continued selection is similar to Dernbach. The selectors want something different from the 6'2''+ high arm 80-87mph brigade that gets smashed on flat wickets like the WC 2015. Jordan skiddy, good yorker and skiddy bouncer. Like Dernbach though if anything he seems to have got worse rather than better with time. And the selectors run the risk of persisting too long with him like they did with Dernbach.

Personally I also feel that Willey also really isn't good enough. He's fairly slow but the batsman play him as if he is even slower than he bowls (prob because he is 6 foot and bowling at 80/81 mph). Opposite of a hit the bat hard bowler. Can't see him working out long term either unless he adds 5mph. The only advantage he does have in the short term (over the likes of Jordan) is that he often takes a wicket or two with the new ball and he is fairly accurate.

I'd persist with Willey in the short term but I agree that Jordan really should be gone next summer. I'd be in favour of a new guy given a chance. J Overton, T Mills, J Ball, O Stone.

 

[Stefan9]

There is talent in the team but the time has come to stick with certain players going forward. I don’t know why the selectors keep persisting with someone like JP Duminy instead of David Miller. It’s amazing to me that Miller is not playing in the ODI side at the moment. - See more at: Proteas still too inconsistent

Totally agree with Graeme. Miller should be playing instead of duminy/behardien. personally would have both rr and miller ahead of them but that ain't possible.

Proteas still too inconsistent

 

[Howe_zat]

Personally I feel the Jordan continued selection is similar to Dernbach. The selectors want something different from the 6'2''+ high arm 80-87mph brigade that gets smashed on flat wickets like the WC 2015. Jordan skiddy, good yorker and skiddy bouncer. Like Dernbach though if anything he seems to have got worse rather than better with time. And the selectors run the risk of persisting too long with him like they did with Dernbach.

Personally I also feel that Willey also really isn't good enough. He's fairly slow but the batsman play him as if he is even slower than he bowls (prob because he is 6 foot and bowling at 80/81 mph). Opposite of a hit the bat hard bowler. Can't see him working out long term either unless he adds 5mph. The only advantage he does have in the short term (over the likes of Jordan) is that he often takes a wicket or two with the new ball and he is fairly accurate.

I'd persist with Willey in the short term but I agree that Jordan really should be gone next summer. I'd be in favour of a new guy given a chance. J Overton, T Mills, J Ball, O Stone.

Our 8th choice bowler playing badly isn't reason to suddenly jump to 10th choice. Jordan is playing because Finn isn't fit and Broad cbf.

 

[marc71178]

10th choice overrates Jordan. The guy is terribad.

 

[StephenZA]

Totally agree with Graeme. Miller should be playing instead of duminy/behardien. personally would have both rr and miller ahead of them but that ain't possible.

Proteas still too inconsistent

Actually I had a look at JP`s batting (as I was originally advocating the same thing) and he has not been half bad, doing better than Rossouw (so is Behardien actually). Granted Rossouw has tons of talent but when he has been given an opportunity he failed to delivery, particularly under pressure. And Miller was given lots of opportunity and was very inconsistent, and is even doing poorly in domestic atm. Duminy`s problem is his bowling, which we where relying on, and is now putting the team under pressure because we have no obvious quality all-rounders in the country. Also Berhardien is getting a lot of **** thrown at him, cause he looks like such a hack (which he is) but when given the job he was asked to do i.e finish of an innings he has generally gone out and done this (60 off 40; 40 of 20 etc), which he is very good at and done for his domestic team often. Where he has struggled, is trying to save a game for us when he is asked to come in early.

The real problem we have with our lower middle order (5/6/7) is that while they can possible finish off a game (last 10/15 overs) if we end up at 120/4 in the 25th we no longer recover. This is enhanced by having a long tail. Hence why we keep trying to pick 7 batsmen. We went from having Smith and Kallis, (along with Hash) who we could almost guarantee getting us to the 40th over to allow AB and Duminy just to go nuts at 5/6. (Rossouw and Miller do not give us consistency at the top of the order and solve our actual problems...) This was further enhanced by Hash going out of form. If he continues to come back into form and QDK continues on his merry way, then the whole team looks better and we do not need the 7th batsmen and can play Morris/Wiese or if they don't work out throw Savage/Phehlukwayo into the deep end and see if they sink or swim.

 

[Stefan9]

Last 12 months of odi cricket:

Duminy average 35 strikerate 85 1x100 1x50
Miller average 36 strikerate 110 1x100
Rossouw average 40 strikerate 90.34 3x50
Behardien average 49.75 strikerate 103.75 2x50

So duminy's stats is worse then all 4. In odi's strikerates matter so for me miller is always in my team and guess looking at those stats behardien deserves a spot but duminy does not.

 

[StephenZA]

Last 12 months of odi cricket:

Duminy average 35 strikerate 85 1x100 1x50
Miller average 36 strikerate 110 1x100
Rossouw average 40 strikerate 90.34 3x50
Behardien average 49.75 strikerate 103.75 2x50

So duminy's stats is worse then all 4. In odi's strikerates matter so for me miller is always in my team and guess looking at those stats behardien deserves a spot but duminy does not.

So Behardien is doing the job he is meant to do, and at times he has bowled quite well and sometimes been an absolute horror.

Rossouw is better than both Duminy and Miller avg wise, but did his best innings at #3/4 when replacing Faf. So he is not the best finisher at this stage and he needs to settle, so he is no good at 6/7.

Now Miller vs Duminy. Miller has a higher strike rate but there avg are much the same. Both got there 100 against Zim in the same match. Otherwise neither has done great. Now considering that we are struggling for a 5th bowler. Duminy makes sense over Miller. Thus Duminy`s problems is his bowling, if he continues with the dross then he needs to be replaced, but now has scored a few runs so there will be a wait and see period.... So it effectively comes down to Millers SR vs Duminy`s bowling.

By the way what is interesting to notice is the horror of a year Amla has had, 22 innings at 35.7 with a SR of 88. This has been the problem for SA more than anything as nobody else has really picked up the slack. I`m hoping QDK will continue in his form, will make life easier for Amla i think.

 

[91Jmay]

Miller is definitely overrated, has talent but has proven little.

 

[Stefan9]

So Behardien is doing the job he is meant to do, and at times he has bowled quite well and sometimes been an absolute horror.

Rossouw is better than both Duminy and Miller avg wise, but did his best innings at #3/4 when replacing Faf. So he is not the best finisher at this stage and he needs to settle, so he is no good at 6/7.

Now Miller vs Duminy. Miller has a higher strike rate but there avg are much the same. Both got there 100 against Zim in the same match. Otherwise neither has done great. Now considering that we are struggling for a 5th bowler. Duminy makes sense over Miller. Thus Duminy`s problems is his bowling, if he continues with the dross then he needs to be replaced, but now has scored a few runs so there will be a wait and see period.... So it effectively comes down to Millers SR vs Duminy`s bowling.

By the way what is interesting to notice is the horror of a year Amla has had, 22 innings at 35.7 with a SR of 88. This has been the problem for SA more than anything as nobody else has really picked up the slack. I`m hoping QDK will continue in his form, will make life easier for Amla i think.

Duminy has taken 8 wickets in a year at an average of 61.25 and an economy rate of 6.20. Hardly think that is more valuable then millers vastly superior strikerate. Miller has x factor duminy doesn't. Miller for me every day, he may fail and be inconsistent but he will win me games.

 

[StephenZA]

Duminy has taken 8 wickets in a year at an average of 61.25 and an economy rate of 6.20. Hardly think that is more valuable then millers vastly superior strikerate. Miller has x factor duminy doesn't. Miller for me every day, he may fail and be inconsistent but he will win me games.

I can understand that, but playing devils advocate; Millers best innings has come when the team is already on top. Duminy has taken key wickets overs the years and turned games for us....

For me the important point I realized is that when you start looking at the details, it is not as clear cut easy selection as some would imply,

 

[Stefan9]

I would argue he has played better innings under more pressure then duminy has in odi cricket. Miller's 49 of 18 in the world cup semi should have been enough for SA to win that game.

So no for me the odd wicket duminy has taken now and then doesn't negate what miller can and has done with the bat. Like I said he is a high risk high reward kind of player.

 

[Dan]

Yeah but even if Duminy isn't taking wickets and is conceding 6rpo, he's still providing valuable fifth bowler overs. Swap him out for Miller, and you're expecting a full allotment from Berhardien (which probably isn't a good thing; bloke can be very hittable late in his spell). Even if Duminy has sucked in recent times, if you drop him someone still has to bowl those overs

So it isn't Duminy's bowling vs. Miller's strike rate at all. It's the difference between Duminy bowling 4 overs per game and someone else in the team bowling 4 overs per game, vs. the difference between Duminy's strike rate and Miller's strike rate.

Given the sixth bowler in a post-Duminy world is ABdV, I'm betting that the selectors think the former difference is waaaay bigger than the latter.

 

[FBU]

Broad plays on Friday. Who drops out? Probably be Willey as our death bowlers are Jordan and Topley.

 

[Prince EWS]

If Willey gets dropped but Jordan doesn't I'll riot. Broad should bowl at the death; he can do his wide yorkers thing.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah but even if Duminy isn't taking wickets and is conceding 6rpo, he's still providing valuable fifth bowler overs. Swap him out for Miller, and you're expecting a full allotment from Berhardien (which probably isn't a good thing; bloke can be very hittable late in his spell). Even if Duminy has sucked in recent times, if you drop him someone still has to bowl those overs

So it isn't Duminy's bowling vs. Miller's strike rate at all. It's the difference between Duminy bowling 4 overs per game and someone else in the team bowling 4 overs per game, vs. the difference between Duminy's strike rate and Miller's strike rate.

Given the sixth bowler in a post-Duminy world is ABdV, I'm betting that the selectors think the former difference is waaaay bigger than the latter.

They're actually picking five bowlers at the moment though If Duminy gets dropped then Behardien becomes the sixth bowler; not the fifth.

 

[Dan]

Well if people are advocating for a lower order of 5. Miller, 6. Berhardien and 7. Weise, they're just silly irrespective. Need dat cake.

 

[vcs]

Remarkable that QdK already has 10 hundreds from 55 matches. Does anyone else have such a high hundreds/innings ratio?

 

[Stefan9]

Remarkable that QdK already has 10 hundreds from 55 matches. Does anyone else have such a high hundreds/innings ratio?

Not sure he beat kohli's record in terms of age but not sure how many games kohli had played at that point.

Yeah but even if Duminy isn't taking wickets and is conceding 6rpo, he's still providing valuable fifth bowler overs. Swap him out for Miller, and you're expecting a full allotment from Berhardien (which probably isn't a good thing; bloke can be very hittable late in his spell). Even if Duminy has sucked in recent times, if you drop him someone still has to bowl those overs

So it isn't Duminy's bowling vs. Miller's strike rate at all. It's the difference between Duminy bowling 4 overs per game and someone else in the team bowling 4 overs per game, vs. the difference between Duminy's strike rate and Miller's strike rate.

Given the sixth bowler in a post-Duminy world is ABdV, I'm betting that the selectors think the former difference is waaaay bigger than the latter.

What is more likely to win you a game Duminy's bowling or millers striking ability?

I would also argue miller is the better fielder between the 2.

 

[Daemon]

Kohli didn't have a great time in his first few odi series iirc