***Official*** Australia in New Zealand 2016

[TheJediBrah]

Faulkner's in terrible form. And his "technique" is such that when he doesn't do well he looks absolutely atrocious.

 

[thierry henry]

Yeah and his record (and some of his famous performances) clearly show what a beast of a hitter he can be when in form. But with your comments on his technique, are you agreeing that he's likely to be a bowling all-rounder for the foreseeable future?

 

[TheJediBrah]

not really sure. he'll always be a bit more of a bowler than batsman IMO even though I know his ODI record suggests otherwise

 

[Bahnz]

Lol astle. He failed miserably at world cups. Guppy is in another class as an odi batsman. Astle was nowhere in the convo with the best odi openers of his time, ever. He was just a good nz opener not that great by world standards. Thats accounting for all the pitches, bats etc. Guppy is one of the best odi openers in the world. All the astle fanboys look silly imo. If guppy is not a better odi opener than astle then taylor is not as good as roger twose either I guess. Imo guppy is every bit valuable as ross taylor in odis. Probably more given hes an opener.

Tbf, Astle never got to play a World Cup in New Zealand. Reckon he would've carved up if he had.

 

[veganbob]

How good of a keeper is Latham? If he can hold his catches maybe hes worth a go as a odi keeper bat. Although he might have the same problem as watling of not being suited to bat at 6/7 in odis

 

[veganbob]

Tbf, Astle never got to play a World Cup in New Zealand. Reckon he would've carved up if he had.

Possibly. He was hardly a destroyer though in odis apart ftom rarely. And before you say its easier now his time included plenty of big hitters and teams focused on scoring big in first 15 . Yes he was very good at home though. Guptill played well in 2011 too though.

 

[Gnske]

Give keeper duties to Phillips immediately I say

 

[Crazy Sam]

Wayne Phillips for Wade?

 

[Prince EWS]

What's the general perception of Faulkner as a pure batsman then? I must admit I have never really given deep thought to his abilities as a cricketer. I've just seen him as well worth his place in the side given he averages fkn 40 at a strike rate of 110 with the bat and is ideal as a basher at #8 in a strong line-up, and performs pretty well with the ball. Had never really pondered whether (a) he is really a "proper" frontline bowler, or (b) whether he can *really*, seriously bat.

I just thought of this because(ironically given he was one of 2 guys who made some runs) watching him bat at the ground on Wednesday it stood out to me that he kinda stinks. We gifted him runs with bad short bowling but in truth he did look lost against it. He had an opportunity to play a really substantial innings and he didn't really look capable of playing Milne properly at all without backing away from the ball. Some of the shots he played (including his dismissal, but there were others) were literally "close eyes and swing across the line" mows for no apparent reason and which appeared to be pre-determined. I'm not denying that this type of player can be very effective in the right role, I was just a little taken aback that there didn't really appear to be a proper batsman hiding underneath when the situation demanded.

It's kind of hard to say. I think we're all more or less still waiting to find out. When he first came into domestic cricket he was expected to bat better and bowl worse than what eventuated, but it's worth keeping in mind that this was the mini-era of green Sheffield Shield pitches, particularly in his home Tasmania. He ended up averaging low to mid 20s with both bat and ball which firmly put him in the 'bowling allrounder' class, but pretty much everyone thinks he's a better batsman and a worse bowler than that showed because of the pitches at the time. It was only really after that he got promoted to Australian limited overs teams did he show the batting talent people thought he had as a youth cricketer.

Since then he's made some FC runs on tour with Australia and some Shield runs, but he's not played enough long-form cricket in general in this period due to his limited overs commitments, and in LO cricket he just plays that finishing role which he's good at but is much more slanted towards a good eye and a good temperament than the sort of batsmanship that could see him play serious innings.

As far as his bowling goes I think he's accurate, canny and has good control over a couple of variations, which makes him a good fit for limited overs cricket (good enough to make the ODI team on the strength of this alone IMO, which was my point originally), but I don't think he does enough with the ball when he's bowling 'properly' to really be an effective Test bowler. With the bat we know he has a good eye and a good temperament but I think beyond that it's a case of "????".

 

[Prince EWS]

What about that Steve O'Keefe.. I thought he would be a good LO player. He bats pretty well too, doesn't he?

Traditionally SoK has been absolutely **** at limited overs cricket; he was just too predictable I think. He's been getting better at it, but he definitely isn't the natural fit people would assume. I think he still actually averages over 50 with the ball in List A stuff.

EDIT: Yeah, he has 29 wickets in 48 games @ 56 with an economy of 4.9. That's all-time terrible in the career records stakes for a frontline bowler.

 

[Crazy Sam]

It is interesting that most of the squad that won the ODI world cup last year should still be around for the next one...yet there are quite a few valid question marks hanging around the team and specifically around the places of some of the players. A fair bit rests on the fitness of the pace bowlers at the moment though. Is it fanciful to hope that all of Starc/Pattinson/Hazlewood/Cummins would be injury-free in 3 years time?

 

[Moss]

Lol astle. He failed miserably at world cups. Guppy is in another class as an odi batsman. Astle was nowhere in the convo with the best odi openers of his time, ever. He was just a good nz opener not that great by world standards. Thats accounting for all the pitches, bats etc. Guppy is one of the best odi openers in the world. All the astle fanboys look silly imo. If guppy is not a better odi opener than astle then taylor is not as good as roger twose either I guess. Imo guppy is every bit valuable as ross taylor in odis. Probably more given hes an opener.

Nah, take away the World Cups and you'll find Astle was plenty good. Maybe not a world-beater, but he was the one guy in the top order who was capable of winning matches off his own bat and he did that pretty often. Until Taylor and KW came along and raised the bar, for a long time NZ's limited overs batting was pretty dire (which explains why Astle and no one else from that era is in the convo). Guptill's game has admittedly jumped a level in the last year but prior to that he wasn't really asserting himself against quality opposition. Perhaps a better bat than Astle, but not "in another class".

 

[TheJediBrah]

It is interesting that most of the squad that won the ODI world cup last year should still be around for the next one...yet there are quite a few valid question marks hanging around the team and specifically around the places of some of the players. A fair bit rests on the fitness of the pace bowlers at the moment though. Is it fanciful to hope that all of Starc/Pattinson/Hazlewood/Cummins would be injury-free in 3 years time?

Clarke, Watson, Haddin, Johnson, Bailey?

 

[Bahnz]

Possibly. He was hardly a destroyer though in odis apart ftom rarely. And before you say its easier now his time included plenty of big hitters and teams focused on scoring big in first 15 . Yes he was very good at home though. Guptill played well in 2011 too though.

Nah, his stats look good on face value, but once you remove the cheap runs he made against Kenya and Zimbabwe his average drops to 24. That was back in the days when Gup had basically zero ability to work the ball into gaps and so once the fields went back and the spinners came on he tended to implode in very short order.

 

[NZTailender]

Lol astle. He failed miserably at world cups.

Yeah he had 2 terrible world cups and one okay one. He also played a lot of other matches in between. World Cups are a great measure but not the be all and end all. Also Guptill was having a very average World Cup with talks of him getting dropped until he finally scored 100 vs Bangladesh and then bullied a highly mediocre West Indies. Iirc he was fundamental in our WC win as well. Oh right.

Guppy is in another class as an odi batsman. Astle was nowhere in the convo with the best odi openers of his time, ever. He was just a good nz opener not that great by world standards.

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

He wasn't the greatest but he was in the group, in the context of the world. At that point imo he was the greatest ODI opener we had ever had. Turner hasn't played enough matches in my books to be seriously compared considering 100+ match careers are the norm.

Thats accounting for all the pitches, bats etc.

What about bowlers? Hardest bowlers Guppy has had to face: Starc, Johnson, Bracken, Akhtar, Murali (twice). Steyn too but he's not the same level as his own Test self. Who did Astle face? Warne, McGrath, Murali, Vaas, Flintoff, Lee, Donald, Gough, Gillespie, Pollock, Mushtaq, Walsh, Younis, Ambrose. Quite a bit of difference in class there.

Guppy is one of the best odi openers in the world.

Of course he is. He is genuinley good. How many openers are there knocking about? Amla is comfortably better. Rohit Sharma has been in great form. Warner, Dilshan, Dhawan have all averaged over 45 in the last couple of years too. He's not the best but top 3.

All the astle fanboys look silly imo.

All the Astle fanboys remember seeing him play and remember him being our best ODI bat for most of the time he was in the side. We're not saying he's the best ever and no-one, not Guptill, will ever surpass but Guptill has had just over half the career Astle has had. I'll wait until he surpasses his runs at a better average before saying he's outright better. I'd have them both opening together in our ATG XI btw.

If guppy is not a better odi opener than astle then taylor is not as good as roger twose either I guess.

Straw man. Taylor at this point is our greatest ODI batsman ever. He'll be overtaken by Kane most likely.

Imo guppy is every bit valuable as ross taylor in odis. Probably more given hes an opener.

In his current form yeah, but imho Taylor has a tougher job. Steering towards a win with less balls to face or make a decent score, again with less balls to face. Opening is hard but there's a reason why most of the top run scorers in ODIs are openers. I'd argue Taylor has made tougher, more valuable hundreds, too.

 

[NZTailender]

Interesting to read in the paper today that Bailey had told Warner to review it. Interesting by the fact he's talked about it, even going so far as to recounting his dressing room discussion with Warner later. I find it kinda strange Bailey making these comments tbh, even if it's the truth. I mean yeah say the 'I told him to review' part maybe but not

"He said 'I wasn't that confident in what you had said' and I said 'well I'm not really sure what you're after Davey, but I can't be any more explicit than saying go for it."'

Like wtf. Doesn't bode well for team unity. Then again, who cares about George Bailey.

 

[hendrix]

think you're reading into it a bit much tbh

 

[Prince EWS]

I think he just felt the need to clarify because the commentators went on for about 15 minutes about how it was his fault and how Warner wouldn't be happy with him.

 

[SteveNZ]

Interesting to read in the paper today that Bailey had told Warner to review it. Interesting by the fact he's talked about it, even going so far as to recounting his dressing room discussion with Warner later. I find it kinda strange Bailey making these comments tbh, even if it's the truth. I mean yeah say the 'I told him to review' part maybe but not

Like wtf. Doesn't bode well for team unity. Then again, who cares about George Bailey.

Some honesty in the media, I love it. Sounds like short of begging him to review it on the basis he was the world's greatest batsman, Bailey couldn't have done much more to save Davey's arse.

I mean who didn't watch it live at the grounds, on TV or anywhere and think mmmm that's pretty damn high? Lounge room comfort and all that, plus the fact lbws can be notoriously hard to get overturned, but I was amazed there was no review. Maybe had the Eden Park World Cup dismissal in his mind where Warner's review was clipping the top, Boult is skiddy etc. Let's not also forget it's a pretty poor decision by the umpire, too.

 

[Prince EWS]

I actually assumed he got an inside edge on it at first and was given out caught.