Spark
Global Moderator
Meant the favourable conditions bit. Obviously he tore it up when he did, but dunno if that was all the time.
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Would Stuart Broad make India's strongest test XI?
- Thread starter ImpatientLime
- Start date
He barely played in Pakistan, and did poorly there.
13 of his 23 Tests in England, SA and NZ. About the best place a seamer like him can bowl.
Pakistan he played 4 matches and took poles at 40.
Will balance it by saying his performance in Sri Lanka all time great spells, probably better than anything Broad has bowled.
13 of his 23 Tests in England, SA and NZ. About the best place a seamer like him can bowl.
Pakistan he played 4 matches and took poles at 40.
Will balance it by saying his performance in Sri Lanka all time great spells, probably better than anything Broad has bowled.
smash84
The Tiger King
Asif's best was ridiculously good. I said Asif in terms of bowling quality not in terms of career. Asif could seam and swing with as much control as any right hand bowler I've ever deen. While Broad is good but definitely not as good.
Edut: yep his spells in sl and against india in khi eere just another level
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Gob
International Coach
Thats way too sample sized to judge anything out of. Averages 24 in FC cricket and i'm sure most of those games must be in Pakistan
smash84
The Tiger King
Just youtube d Asif and my word he was so ****ing outstanding. Asif **** you. What a waste of talent. Just reminded me how he could toy around with batsmen
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...CuQBLEZdz9K1LqIRQ&sig2=otNofAwmsTMiS7wZeC5OIQ
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...CuQBLEZdz9K1LqIRQ&sig2=otNofAwmsTMiS7wZeC5OIQ
Stapel
International Regular
I see. Can't help you out. I find it quite hard anyway, to objectively determine favourable conditions. A fair example would be the recent Kaapstad Test. A batting road only because England dropped so many? What I mean to say is that too often we rely on scorecards for a verdict (on pitch & players). Even while realising how stupid that can be. There are occasions when it's easy to say if conditions favour bowlers (for instance, this summer's Trent Bridge Test was sooooooo overcast during the toss, that I actually decided to hop on the train and go there right away). But many times, if not most, we simply can't say for sure.
Yeah, Broads never done that against India, or Australia or South Africa or West Indies to be fair.
Wait.
Stapel
International Regular
You mean Asif at his best better than Broad at his best? Or what?
smash84
The Tiger King
Yes asif at his best > broad at his best
I'd take peak asif over peak broad every singe day
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
I think Asif's heights were greater than Broad's. By that I don't mean that his best spells/games were better than Broad's best, but that if you asked me "how good do you think Asif is right now?" when he was at his peak and I'd quantified that into some sort of number, that number would be higher than the number I'd give Broad now (and I've never rated Broad higher than I do right now).
However, I don't think that's worth as much as the lengths Broad has managed to keep up high performance. Broad's career was worth more (assuming Asif's is over) and therefore he was 'better' in my way of thinking, but I don't think he quite reached Asif's peak.
However, I don't think that's worth as much as the lengths Broad has managed to keep up high performance. Broad's career was worth more (assuming Asif's is over) and therefore he was 'better' in my way of thinking, but I don't think he quite reached Asif's peak.
I think Broad in last 12 months is better than anything Asif produced, but I also agree that maintaining quality performance over 4 years is more valuable than a player who is better over a short period of time.
Haven't even mentioned Broad's batting (which if we are talking about who'd get into a side ahead of the other matters) which adds a few % points to Broad.
Haven't even mentioned Broad's batting (which if we are talking about who'd get into a side ahead of the other matters) which adds a few % points to Broad.
Teja.
Global Moderator
It's a bit like several post-2000 NZ pacers have added more value as cricketers to NZ but Bond is the best and Lee having a better career than Harris but Harris clearly being the better bowler.
McGrath and Steyn aside, I can't think of a pacer of the quality of Asif in the last 15 years or so but several have had greater careers.
McGrath and Steyn aside, I can't think of a pacer of the quality of Asif in the last 15 years or so but several have had greater careers.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Basically I think people are arguing at cross purposes a bit.
When you're asked to think of a bowler 'at their best' you can either think of the best spells they ever bowled, or you can think of the highest sort of quality they were rated at and expected to bowl. Broad's best spells are better than Asif's best spells, but Asif consistently bowled excellent spells over a period, while Broad is still (relatively to Asif anyway) inconsistent, so I think Asif achieved a higher peak as such.
There was a time where if you picked Asif you'd get a better average from him than you'd get from Broad now. And that's high praise, but Asif was bloody good for a time.
When you're asked to think of a bowler 'at their best' you can either think of the best spells they ever bowled, or you can think of the highest sort of quality they were rated at and expected to bowl. Broad's best spells are better than Asif's best spells, but Asif consistently bowled excellent spells over a period, while Broad is still (relatively to Asif anyway) inconsistent, so I think Asif achieved a higher peak as such.
There was a time where if you picked Asif you'd get a better average from him than you'd get from Broad now. And that's high praise, but Asif was bloody good for a time.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Yeah no arguments from me there. I don't really factor in either version of 'at their best' very highly when I rate players overall so I'd definitely have Broad over Asif, but no-one wants to hear me talk about longevity again so I thought I'd try and delve into what criteria other people were actually using. Seemed like it was actually two separate things despite the same words being used.
