Mohammed Amir cleared to return with immediate effect

[harsh.ag]

The excuses people make for an eighteen year old in the name of moral relativism are staggering. Asif may have the intellectual development of an 18 year old, who knows right? Definitely not you guys or me, right? Why not cut him some slack?

Ftr I don't think any of these guys should have their places back. But if you are going to argue that Amir has done his time and now it is time to bring him back then I see no ****ing reason why you wouldn't extend the same courtesy to Asif and Butt.

You gotta want to see it

 

[indiaholic]

I do want to see it harsh. But there needs to be some consistency in the principles you apply to judge people, right? Here the leeway that Amir gets is based on the assumption that he was too young to know any better. Now you and I both know that people mature at different ages. There are very stable individuals at 18 and ******s at 27. Asif may suffer from some disorder that results in poor impulse control. Is this all wild speculation? Yes. But are you guys speculating like crazy when you assume all those pressures on Amir? Yep.

 

[harsh.ag]

I do want to see it harsh. But there needs to be some consistency in the principles you apply to judge people, right? Here the leeway that Amir gets is based on the assumption that he was too young to know any better. Now you and I both know that people mature at different ages. There are very stable individuals at 18 and ******s at 27. Asif may suffer from some disorder that results in poor impulse control. Is this all wild speculation? Yes. But are you guys speculating like crazy when you assume all those pressures on Amir? Yep.

Balance of probability

 

[indiaholic]

And you are prepared to ruin one career and spare the other on that? On probabilities that have your biases as priors?

 

[harsh.ag]

And you are prepared to ruin one career and spare the other on that? On probabilities that have your biases as priors?

That's how the whole world is run dude!

 

[smash84]

That's how the whole world is run dude!

Is that how you want it to run?

 

[harsh.ag]

Is that how you want it to run?

I think it's one of the much better ways. Things can always turn out wrong. But that's always going to happen because of uncertainty and incomplete information.

 

[hendrix]

An 18 year old playing International cricket should be treated the same as a 28 year old, if they're good enough to play then they have to follow the same standards of behaviour.

Both have had the same level of training as to what is right and wrong so age is irrelevant.

I do want to see it harsh. But there needs to be some consistency in the principles you apply to judge people, right? Here the leeway that Amir gets is based on the assumption that he was too young to know any better. Now you and I both know that people mature at different ages. There are very stable individuals at 18 and ******s at 27. Asif may suffer from some disorder that results in poor impulse control. Is this all wild speculation? Yes. But are you guys speculating like crazy when you assume all those pressures on Amir? Yep.

Amir was 18, Asif was 28. One, by general definitions has only just "become a man", the other's had a multi-year sporting career where he's experienced various punishments from committing mistakes and thus understands the consequences of his actions much better.

People are still responsible for their actions. But a 28 year old has 10 years more experience.

Asif may well be an idiot. Let's be honest - he's definitely an idiot. He's still had 10 years more of life from which to learn.

 

[indiaholic]

I think it's one of the much better ways. Things can always turn out wrong. But that's always going to happen because of uncertainty and incomplete information.

Nah doesn't work in this case. All you can use the balance of probability for is to determine whether given the evidence he was guilty.. Based on that they were all found guilty. Then varying degrees of punishment were handed out and like all criminals deserve rehabilitation once they have served their time. If Amir deserves to come back, allow Asif and Butt too..

 

[indiaholic]

Amir was 18, Asif was 28. One, by general definitions has only just "become a man", the other's had a multi-year sporting career where he's experienced various punishments from committing mistakes and thus understands the consequences of his actions much better.

People are still responsible for their actions. But a 28 year old has 10 years more experience.

Asif may well be an idiot. Let's be honest - he's definitely an idiot. He's still had 10 years more of life from which to learn.

Is match fixing being wrong or the consequences of getting caught a concept which requires years of experience to understand?

 

[harsh.ag]

Nah doesn't work in this case. All you can use the balance of probability for is to determine whether given the evidence he was guilty.. Based on that they were all found guilty. Then varying degrees of punishment were handed out and like all criminals deserve rehabilitation once they have served their time. If Amir deserves to come back, allow Asif and Butt too..

Nope, that's your opinion

 

[indiaholic]

Nope, just asking for some consistency.

 

[hendrix]

Is match fixing being wrong or the consequences of getting caught a concept which requires years of experience to understand?

Understanding the consequences of spot fixing does require a type of holistic understanding that requires some type of life experience, in my opinion, yes.

 

[harsh.ag]

Would you be more willing to give the first year another shot who stole or the CEO who did, or equally no in your book?

 

[indiaholic]

I would give a longer sentence to the CEO for the crime if he was the one instigating it and recruiting the first year guy. Once their sentences were over they should have an equal chance at rehabilitation.

 

[indiaholic]

Understanding the consequences of spot fixing does require a type of holistic understanding that requires some type of life experience, in my opinion, yes.

Oh not at the moral level. In the case of a number of things such as polluting the air by riding around in a high emissions SUV, your contribution seem minor enough in the larger scheme of things that it is difficult to blame yourself. It's just one no ball.. He was still trying to win the game etc..

But he surely understands consequences such as a possible life ban from cricket?

 

[Bahnz]

Is match fixing being wrong or the consequences of getting caught a concept which requires years of experience to understand?

Obviously not. Nonetheless, I feel that the circumstances that Amir faced were significantly different to those experienced by Butt (and to a lesser extent Asif). In Amir's case you had an 18 year old, essentially in his first year of international cricket, being told by his captain and manager that he needed to spot fix (or else, in Amir's version of events). In Butt's case you had an individual in a position of power and responsibility either encouraging or coercing (depending on who you believe) the junior member of his team to commit illegal activities. The later strikes me immediately as the more serious offence, given the violation of trust and power that occured, and so I feel that Butt's punishment should be more severe.

 

[indiaholic]

Obviously not. Nonetheless, I feel that the circumstances that Amir faced were significantly different to those experienced by Butt (and to a lesser extent Asif). In Amir's case you had an 18 year old, essentially in his first year of international cricket, being told by his captain and manager that he needed to spot fix (or else, in Amir's version of events). In Butt's case you had an individual in a position of power and responsibility either encouraging or coercing (depending on who you believe) the junior member of his team to commit illegal activities. The later strikes me immediately as the more serious offence, given the violation of trust and power that occured, and so I feel that Butt's punishment should be more severe.

Fair enough.. So you are stating that because Amir, Asif and Butt were all given 5 year bans and it was too light a sentence, you want to extend it?

 

[Bahnz]

Fair enough.. So you are stating that because Amir, Asif and Butt were all given 5 year bans and it was too light a sentence, you want to extend it?

I feel Amir's sentence was about right. Asif and Butt should've gotten longer sentences imo (I think Butt's original sentence was 10 years, with 5 years suspended - but a straight 10 years sounds fairer to me).

 

[indiaholic]

I feel Amir's sentence was about right. Asif and Butt should've gotten longer sentences imo (I think Butt's original sentence was 10 years, with 5 years suspended - but a straight 10 years sounds fairer to me).

I felt everyone's sentence was a bit light. Butt and Asif should have had sentences long enough that they would have 0 chances of making an international return and Amir should have at least lost a substantial chunk of his prime years.

But none of these things we wished for has happened and everybody has served the punishments they got. If it is not fair to disallow Amir because some people (I) feel he was let off too easily, wouldn't it be unfair to disallow Asif and Butt because we feel they were given a light sentence?