Player revolt in sa over quota system ??

[Dan]

Honestly, all for more involvement. But quotas reek at impatience at something that won't and hasn't healed in just a generation.

Yeah, this is a really good point IMO (who said we couldn't agree from time to time?)

The temporal aspect of things like this is one that I don't think often is properly factored into responses to past oppression/experience -- cutting across all the various social campaigns undertaken by the Left (insofar as 'the Left' is an amorphous blob who all undertake the same campaigns in the same ways). There's a sense that, if everyone thought like I do/the state does what I think it should do, that centuries, if not millennia, of oppression based on ***uality, gender or race can be unwound. But overnight, magic bullet solutions don't exist.

The quotas here, while ostensibly well-intentioned, do strike me as an attempt to solve what is a long-term problem in a far-too-short period of time. So it's no surprise that they lack any real efficacy in producing deep, institutional change.

 

[kykweer.proteas]

Bacher: Black cricketers won't make it in townships | Sport24

"Cape Town - Young black cricketers will not make it to the top if they keep playing their cricket in townships, former SA captain Ali Bacher believes.

In an interview with Netwerk24, Bacher said unless a player is born with the same genes as West Indian cricket great Brian Lara, there is ‘no way’ they will make it as a cricketer if they stay in the township culture."



To be completely fair and realistic, very very few players, whether they be black/white/indian/chinese/purple kids make it if they don't go to traditional cricket schools.

 

[kykweer.proteas]

What do you sue for? There isn't any active discrimination. If they are good enough, they get picked. But a team culture is something you cannot legally enforce, and if white players make up the team culture, no matter how accommodating they try to be, the minorities will continue to be the minorities. They will be forced to assimilate. And if they can't, their performance will struggle, and there would be legit, fair reasons to prefer a player who fits the team culture better.

Lol xorax, just trying to poke fun at you/tongue in cheek/pun intended... but that sounds an awful lot like something Hendrik Verwoerd would have said.

 

[cnerd123]

Its a half assed hypothetical scenario made off limited knowledge of SA's cricketing sturcture to demonstrate that there could be situations where Quotas might actually work and be the best available idea...cut me some slack!

I don't want to write off an entire idea as flawed based of experiences/examples of the idea being applied poorly/in spite of other better ideas that are available.

 

[Gnske]

Yeah, this is a really good point IMO (who said we couldn't agree from time to time?)

The temporal aspect of things like this is one that I don't think often is properly factored into responses to past oppression/experience -- cutting across all the various social campaigns undertaken by the Left (insofar as 'the Left' is an amorphous blob who all undertake the same campaigns in the same ways). There's a sense that, if everyone thought like I do/the state does what I think it should do, that centuries, if not millennia, of oppression based on ***uality, gender or race can be unwound. But overnight, magic bullet solutions don't exist.

The quotas here, while ostensibly well-intentioned, do strike me as an attempt to solve what is a long-term problem in a far-too-short period of time. So it's no surprise that they lack any real efficacy in producing deep, institutional change.

Hey you never would have heard me doubt it.

Agree with those sentiments though, I mean we're only now seeing the first generation of South Africans who never experienced Apartheid its that raw.

 

[Oduodu]

The problem is that its gonna be another 10 years before those people never to have experienced apartheid get into politics.

 

[honestbharani]

What do you sue for? There isn't any active discrimination. If they are good enough, they get picked. But a team culture is something you cannot legally enforce, and if white players make up the team culture, no matter how accommodating they try to be, the minorities will continue to be the minorities. They will be forced to assimilate. And if they can't, their performance will struggle, and there would be legit, fair reasons to prefer a player who fits the team culture better.

You think cultural issues do not exist in other teams? There has been a whole thing about South Indian players not being given their due for a very long time in INdian cricket, and that from very respected cricket writers. The team being extremely North and West biased means its almost an unwritten requirement that a player from South India know Hindi to better fit into the team. Any sports team will have its culture defined by the majority and that is just true in all cases. You can't blame anyone for it and any attempt to fix that is only gonna blow it up even more. I mean, its just how the world works normally.

 

[kykweer.proteas]

The problem is that its gonna be another 10 years before those people never to have experienced apartheid get into politics.

Well the guys that never experienced apartheud is more militant than ever which will lead to disturbing social consequences...

 

[Oduodu]

Are you talking about the eff ?? I actually enjoy malema BUT cannot understand his attitude towards land reforms. How many farms have government taken and how many if those farms have become success ?? We have many black farmers who has just as many problems as the white farmers (and they are just as good). Are they the ones who get the repossessed farms ?? Nope. That gets given too people who stayed(and worked) on the farm and has had their parents buried there and that's the basis of the claim. If they give those farms to already established black farmers who teach other blacks to farm there then that would make sense.
The best was when malema said in parliament that it cannot be apartheids fault any more that we have load shedding. I also agree with him that state assets shouldn't be privatized. Nationalization is the way to go for without which we cannot solve the unemployment issue.

Yes I agree that there is a militant part to the youth or born frees as they are now known. Both black and white.

It still amazes me that after 21 years of democracy we now have more illiteracy and poorer standards of education in our schools then ever before.

Racism is rife in sa I am sorry to say. But after 21 years I am getting tired of hearing that racism is a whote thing only. I am tired because I see rich black men getting out of their BMW and they are not willing to give 50c to a black begging street child. I am tired because I see every year how many black children gets abandoned in durban at the beaches with no coming to look for them. I am tired because of mini bus taxi's not being road worthy being used to take black kids to school in the mornings and the traffic cops are afraid to do anything about it out of fear for their lives.

Why should cricket in south africa be any different ??

 

[Black_Warrior]

Oh yay this argument again.

Just gonna leave this here:

Not a good argument at all in the specific context of sports.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Its a half assed hypothetical scenario made off limited knowledge of SA's cricketing sturcture to demonstrate that there could be situations where Quotas might actually work and be the best available idea...cut me some slack!

I don't want to write off an entire idea as flawed based of experiences/examples of the idea being applied poorly/in spite of other better ideas that are available.

you realize how pointless that is though right?

Like I said earlier, no one anywhere ever thinks that the intention behind quotas is bad

 

[kiwiviktor81]

The intention of quotas is to enact revenge against, and hopefully help to destroy, white South African culture. Shame on anyone who supports such a blatant evil.

 

[Marius]

The intention of quotas is to enact revenge against, and hopefully help to destroy, white South African culture. Shame on anyone who supports such a blatant evil.

That is nonsense.

 

[Marius]

Are you talking about the eff ?? I actually enjoy malema BUT cannot understand his attitude towards land reforms. How many farms have government taken and how many if those farms have become success ?? We have many black farmers who has just as many problems as the white farmers (and they are just as good). Are they the ones who get the repossessed farms ?? Nope. That gets given too people who stayed(and worked) on the farm and has had their parents buried there and that's the basis of the claim. If they give those farms to already established black farmers who teach other blacks to farm there then that would make sense.
The best was when malema said in parliament that it cannot be apartheids fault any more that we have load shedding. I also agree with him that state assets shouldn't be privatized. Nationalization is the way to go for without which we cannot solve the unemployment issue.

Yes I agree that there is a militant part to the youth or born frees as they are now known. Both black and white.

It still amazes me that after 21 years of democracy we now have more illiteracy and poorer standards of education in our schools then ever before.

Racism is rife in sa I am sorry to say. But after 21 years I am getting tired of hearing that racism is a whote thing only. I am tired because I see rich black men getting out of their BMW and they are not willing to give 50c to a black begging street child. I am tired because I see every year how many black children gets abandoned in durban at the beaches with no coming to look for them. I am tired because of mini bus taxi's not being road worthy being used to take black kids to school in the mornings and the traffic cops are afraid to do anything about it out of fear for their lives.

Why should cricket in south africa be any different ??

Nationalisation won't solve anything - in fact it will make things worse. Look at SAA, it is falling apart and the taxpayers have to keep throwing good money after bad. Imagine how many schools or hospitals could have been built with the money we have to use to bail out SAA. Would you really want to bank somewhere where the CEO is a Zuma crony?

With regard to literacy and poor standards of education being worse since apartheid, that is objectively false. Young people in SA have close to full literacy and more people than ever are in school and tertiary education.

And racism may be rife (I'm not sure I agree) but a recent Afrobarometer survey found that only 2% of South Africans thought racism and inequality are our biggest problem - 70% said unemployment was. We can all agree that racism is an awful, horrible thing, but it is not the biggest problem in South Africa today.

 

[Marius]

Though a maximum of 4 white players in amateur competitions seems absurd to me. Does that include all amateur competitions? Like village cricket?

It doesn't include ordinary club competitions, but at club champs (where the top club for the season from each region play in a national tournament) you have to have at least one player of colour (and maybe even two). My brother is quite involved at my cricket club (on the committee etc.) and he told me if you don't have a player of colour at club champs you get fined, not sure of the exact amount, but it's a fairly hefty amount for a community cricket club. It's basically social engineering.

 

[TheJediBrah]

That is nonsense.

sarcasm detector broken?

 

[Oduodu]

Marius

You sure about the literacy ??

 

[Black_Warrior]

The intention of quotas is to enact revenge against, and hopefully help to destroy, white South African culture. Shame on anyone who supports such a blatant evil.

I don't think that's necessarily the intention behind quota system, but yes it can very often be used as a tool for revenge, usually against a generation that had nothing to do with the past crimes.

 

[Marius]

Marius

You sure about the literacy ??

Pretty sure, don't have the stats with me but I'll check when I get home.

We're close to full literacy among young people.

 

[kykweer.proteas]

The latest news:

Cape Town - Reports suggest white players from the Titans, Knights and Highveld Lions are unhappy about Cricket South Africa’s (CSA) quota system in franchise cricket.

The current quota system stipulates that all franchises must field six players of colour in their starting XIs at all times during this season's Ram Slam T20, Momentum One-Day Cup and four-day Sunfoil Series.

Three of the six must also be black African players.

According to Netwerk24, a recent report indicated unhappiness from players in the three inland franchises regarding the system.

However, it appears there won’t be a strike of any kind.

“When the allegations about a strike were made, we immediately called a meeting with our senior players,” Titans CEO Jacques Faul said.

“Albie Morkel, who was our captain in the local T20 series, gave us the assurance that there were no official meetings regarding any boycott actions during the series. There won’t be a strike.”

Faul though did admit that there is a “level of dissatisfaction” about the quota system.

Greg Fredericks, CEO of the Highveld Lions, said they were not aware of the allegations.

White cricketers unhappy at quotas? | Sport24