Jonbrooks chucking Megathread

[smash84]

Pratters, you didn't comment on those 2 videos that i posted of saqlain bowling the doosra. Those look pretty clean and they don't support your hypothesis that the doosra can't be bowled cleanly

 

[smash84]

Somebody took the effort to put a whole collection of saqlain doosras

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKsDz3MmmuA

Saqlain, what a legend

 

[smash84]

The thing that I note with Saqlain's doosra is that he puts in a lot of effort in the wrist when he bowls his doosra. Gotta love him

 

[Pratters]

The thing that I note with Saqlain's doosra is that he puts in a lot of effort in the wrist when he bowls his doosra. Gotta love him

How about this for the chuck though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mIPQdTTtys

Saqlain used his finger and not the elbow for the straighter one. However, in doosra, one has to use the elbow. Even in the 15 minute video (most of them were not doosras or straighter ones - they were normal off spinners), if you look at the delivery at 4.48 where he gets the Aussie player, there is a lot of use of the elbow.

 

[smash84]

How about this for the chuck though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mIPQdTTtys

Saqlain used his finger and not the elbow for the straighter one. However, in doosra, one has to use the elbow. Even in the 15 minute video (most of them were not doosras or straighter ones - they were normal off spinners), if you look at the delivery at 4.48 where he gets the Aussie player, there is a lot of use of the elbow.

yep, that one i didn't post on purpose because that looked like a chuck

However you choose to discount all the doosras that look fine and just focus on the ones that don't. All it takes is one doosra that is fine to disprove your point.

And **** you, that all others are topspinners and off spinners. The ones at 5:03 and then at 5:15 to jimmy adams are doosra, so is the one to sachin at 6:13. And the one to khurasiya at 8:04. And the one to henry olonga at 9:10 and the list goes on. These are all perfect doosras. You didn't even watch the video, liar

 

[TheJediBrah]

Has anyone thought about the practicality of umpires calling no-balls in games though?

Surely it would be exceedingly difficult to watch the arm and the front line for no-balls at the same time.

How about this for the chuck though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mIPQdTTtys

Saqlain used his finger and not the elbow for the straighter one. However, in doosra, one has to use the elbow. Even in the 15 minute video (most of them were not doosras or straighter ones - they were normal off spinners), if you look at the delivery at 4.48 where he gets the Aussie player, there is a lot of use of the elbow.

Ugh that's ugly. Makes you think umps should be able to call certain deliveries in-game.

But then there's the practicality of umpires calling no-balls in games

Surely it would be exceedingly difficult to watch the arm and the front line for no-balls at the same time.

 

[Pratters]

However you choose to discount all the doosras that look fine and just focus on the ones that don't. All it takes is one doosra that is fine to disprove your point.

some pretty clean doosras here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCt6kJz3HBA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCbt3feUk4Y

The two you linked, the one from the Asia v ROW has the same issue of elbow. Have to slow it down. With Saqlain it's less obvious though, as he uses his fingers a lot. The other one is not the doosra.

And **** you, that all others are topspinners and off spinners. The ones at 5:03 and then at 5:15 to jimmy adams are doosra, so is the one to sachin at 6:13. And the one to khurasiya at 8:04. You didn't even watch the video, liar

I did watch it till Sachin got out (and I turned it off then) and a lot of the deliveries were not doosras till then.

 

[smash84]

Has anyone thought about the practicality of umpires calling no-balls in games though?

Surely it would be exceedingly difficult to watch the arm and the front line for no-balls at the same time.



Ugh that's ugly. Makes you think umps should be able to call certain deliveries in-game.

But then there's the practicality of umpires calling no-balls in games

Surely it would be exceedingly difficult to watch the arm and the front line for no-balls at the same time.

Usually the square leg umpire would call out the chuck. It isn't very efficient to be watching for the chuck if you're standing behind the bowler and also looking for the no ball

 

[TheJediBrah]

Saqlain's action looks a bit better than most dodgy offies these days IMO.

But can you say that he should have been allowed to bowl the doosra because some of the time he didn't chuck it?

 

[smash84]

I did watch it till Sachin got out (and I turned it off then) and a lot of the deliveries were not doosras till then.

Yes, but a lot of them were. You didn't even watch the doosras to the west indian batsmen at 5:03 and then to jimmy adams at 5:17. And you didn't see the one to khurasiya and to henry olonga at 9:10 (that is such a perfect round arm doosra). so yeah, it CAN be bowled legally.

 

[smash84]

Saqlain's action looks a bit better than most dodgy offies these days IMO.

But can you say that he should have been allowed to bowl the doosra because some of the time he didn't chuck it?

The point of the matter is that it CAN be bowled legally. He did chuck it some of the time. Most of the time it looks clean. So yeah if a bowler can bowl it cleanly then it should be allowed. The argument being presented was that the doosra CANNOT be bowled legally. We know that it can be.

 

[Pratters]

I don't think it can, not with enough purchase any way. With Saqlain, as he uses the fingers, it's less obvious but the elbow use is there.

 

[Pratters]

Obviously if some one comes along and does it with some funky side on action or a new innovation, I wouldn't mind seeing it at all. However I'll believe it when I see it (doosra bowled without elbow usage).

 

[TheJediBrah]

It's debatable IMO. If someone comes along who can bowl it consistently, 100% of the time with a legal bowling action and they can prove it, then they should be allowed to bowl it.

saying you should ban the delivery outright is a bit overboard imo

 

[Pratters]

Yeah agree..

 

[Migara]

It's debatable IMO. If someone comes along who can bowl it consistently, 100% of the time with a legal bowling action and they can prove it, then they should be allowed to bowl it.

saying you should ban the delivery outright is a bit overboard imo

I do know a family with Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, who are local club level cricketers. Two brothers in fact. One is a off break bowler, and the way he spins the wrist is mind boggling. His stock ball is a top spinner, and he has demonstrated me bowling a doosra with his arm held still at a reasonable pace. Other one is a medium pacer, and his slower ball is a doosra, once again bowled with a gun barrel straight arm. These two are very skilled, but their lower body, the hypermobility of knees and cardiac issues have prevented playing them at a higher level.

 

[cnerd123]

I think the problem people have with the doosra is they keep thinking of it as a variation like a topspinner or an outswinger that pretty much anyone can bowl with the right technique and a bit of practice. But it isn't. To bowl the doosra fairly, and not chuck it, is more like trying to bowl >140 kmph. Most people just dont have the natural physica gifts required to acheive it, and even if they did it takes a serious amount of time and training in order to do it constantly.

 

[cnerd123]

Yeah agree..

So you admit you are wrong? About how the doosra is bowled, about its legality, and about Murali's action?

 

[smash84]

I think the problem people have with the doosra is they keep thinking of it as a variation like a topspinner or an outswinger that pretty much anyone can bowl with the right technique and a bit of practice. But it isn't. To bowl the doosra fairly, and not chuck it, is more like trying to bowl >140 kmph. Most people just dont have the natural physica gifts required to acheive it, and even if they did it takes a serious amount of time and training in order to do it constantly.

I think that's an interesting point

 

[Victor Ian]

I've jumped in at the end rather than read heaps of pages (Still pooped from doing that on the 2015 rankings thread). Why can't they just get the bowlers to wear a red wrist, elbow and armband and then just track it live. Perhaps something like a thin wire with small charge running down the arm and you could detect flex by changes in the magnetic field and the bowlers could be inflicted with a stronger electric charge when they flexed outside acceptable limits crushing them in involuntary contractions. Would be awesome viewing.