Jonbrooks chucking Megathread

[Pratters]

Akhtar chucking explained by Holding: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ1OcUxalwg

But honestbharani will tell me Holding is a tool.

 

[TheJediBrah]

The issue is beyond Murali. Murali's career is over. It doesn't matter too much now. However, the kids learning to bowl the doosra, that's what I am concerned about.

In all seriousness, this is a very good point. ICC's fault for allowing questionable bowling for so long. How many young cricketers have perfected their skills for years to copy their heroes like Saeed Ajmal and co., thinking it was fine. Then all of a sudden, "boom", we're gonna ban everyone who chucks, and you've got a generation of bowlers who need to re-configure their whole game.

 

[Pratters]

Okay, so read the next few lines and tell me what you think:

"So, to return to the question, why 15 degrees? The ICC's answer seems to be that up to 15 degrees, a straightening arm is invisible to the naked eye. The new rule will be aimed at the egregiously illegal bowling action, visible to the umpire's eye. Inquiries will only be initiated into actions that seem illegal to the umpires in the middle."

Ignoring the force of elbow aspect completely.

 

[Pratters]

Why am I giving Calcutta a bad name Harsh? Terrible form.

 

[Pratters]

Bringing in degrees confused the whole thing Harsh, not simplify it. That's where the problem came. If degrees is to be used, it has to be used with velocity. We have to be strict regarding velocity more than any thing. Let me see how many doosra bowlers are allowed then whether they bowl with 5/15/25 degrees.

 

[Pratters]

Degree coupled with velocity is visible to naked eye, not just degree. Ten degree with higher velcoty would be visible as well.

 

[Pratters]

Also please bowl a few deliveries medium pace, spin and doosra. See how the elbow is used. You will understand how the doosra uses extra force of the elbow while a clean medium pace or spin action doesn't. I don't know why it's so difficult to understand the throw. It's common sense more than any thing.

 

[TheJediBrah]

He's not providing proof but he is right. If you have a go at bowling a few doosras next time you're at the nets, especially if you're trying to turn them and I guarantee you will have a sore elbow if you're not used to it lol

 

[cnerd123]

They use it. However, they don't chuck it in the traditional (true) sense. They would never be called by the umpires as per the old laws.

You defined chuck as using the elbow to generate force
You now say that using the elbow to generate force isnt chucking in the traditional (true) sense

You do realise you have just contradicted yourself yes?

Define chucking in the traditional (true) sense for me. And dont refer to the old law again.

 

[cnerd123]

He's not providing proof but he is right. If you have a go at bowling a few doosras next time you're at the nets, especially if you're trying to turn them and I guarantee you will have a sore elbow if you're not used to it lol

Well yea, thats because you are doing it wrong.

Saying its hard to do, or that it is a chuck when done incorrectly, is not the same as saying it is impossible to bowl legally. You may as well say its impossible to bowl 140 kmph legally because the last time you attempted to do so you had to chuck the ball to get to that speed.

 

[cnerd123]

Degree coupled with velocity is visible to naked eye, not just degree. Ten degree with higher velcoty would be visible as well.

Source? Or are you inventing 'facts'?

 

[cnerd123]

In all seriousness, this is a very good point. ICC's fault for allowing questionable bowling for so long. How many young cricketers have perfected their skills for years to copy their heroes like Saeed Ajmal and co., thinking it was fine. Then all of a sudden, "boom", we're gonna ban everyone who chucks, and you've got a generation of bowlers who need to re-configure their whole game.

I agree with this ftr.

I also dont like the secrecy and opaqueness over the current testing methodologies. The means the ICC uses to establish if a bowler is chucking or not should really be public domain and available to players and coaches at all levels.

 

[Pratters]

You defined chuck as using the elbow to generate force
You now say that using the elbow to generate force isnt chucking in the traditional (true) sense

You do realise you have just contradicted yourself yes?

Define chucking in the traditional (true) sense for me. And dont refer to the old law again.

You are confused. I have not contradicted myself. Instead of understanding my point you are just trying to find a loophole. Don't care.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Well yea, thats because you are doing it wrong.

Saying its hard to do, or that it is a chuck when done incorrectly, is not the same as saying it is impossible to bowl legally. You may as well say its impossible to bowl 140 kmph legally because the last time you attempted to do so you had to chuck the ball to get to that speed.

yeah no that's completely wrong

you can't bowl the doosra without straightening the elbow, it's physically impossible. That's just a fact.

Whether or not it's "legal" is another matter entirely, but no, it's not because "you are doing it wrong"

 

[cnerd123]

Also please bowl a few deliveries medium pace, spin and doosra. See how the elbow is used. You will understand how the doosra uses extra force of the elbow while a clean medium pace or spin action doesn't. I don't know why it's so difficult to understand the throw. It's common sense more than any thing.

You are bowling the doosra wrong.

 

[Pratters]

Source? Or are you inventing 'facts'?

Common sense.

 

[Pratters]

You are bowling the doosra wrong.

My sore elbow disagrees.

 

[cnerd123]

yeah no that's completely wrong

you can't bowl the doosra without straightening the elbow, it's physically impossible. That's just a fact.

Whether or not it's "legal" is another matter entirely, but no, it's not because "you are doing it wrong"

Well obv you need to straighten the elbow, as you need to do with every ball.

If your elbow is sore and not your shoulder/wrist, then you are bowling the doosra wrong. You are chucking it not bowling it. Your arm is meant to be slightly bent in order to allow you to get a wider range rotation from the shoulder; it isnt meant to straighten to release the ball.

 

[Pratters]

Source? Or are you inventing 'facts'?

The point is using degrees for visibility was just wrong. That's not what a chuck was.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Well obv you need to straighten the elbow, as you need to do with every ball.

If your elbow is sore and not your shoulder/wrist, then you are bowling the doosra wrong. You are chucking it not bowling it. Your arm is meant to be slightly bent in order to allow you to get a wider range rotation from the shoulder; it isnt meant to straighten to release the ball.

Ah I see what you are saying. Yeah I was exaggerating a bit regarding the sore elbow.

But an increased flexion of the elbow is ubiquitous with bowling of the doosra. It's just the physiology of the movement. It's much easier to bowl an off-break, leg-break or a medium-pace delivery with less flexion than a doosra.