2015 Final Test Rankings - Steve Smith #1, Williamson #2, Voges #11

[TheJediBrah]

The reason the pitches are being equated is this - Had the Aussies had the same team composition that India does, and the Saffers came visiting, you would see a "dustbowl" in MCG.

Also, time you acknowledged Murali Vijay as the GOAT player of spin.

Yeah, no. You wouldn't.

edit: If you are honestly saying that you believe that Australia have been deliberately preparing pitches to suit their players then I can accept that. You have the right to believe what you want and if the structured explanations in this thread can't show you why they haven't then there's not much point continuing the discussion on this topic tbh.

"Agree to disagree" I guess

Harmer bowled well tbf to him, and that Elgar average is misleading. He had one wicket taking spell and nothing else. 5 wickets in 4 test matches isn't exactly evidence of the pitches helping a mediocre bowler.

interesting tidbits but hardly affects the point tbh

 

[honestbharani]

lol anyone can go back and look at the posts you claim are "out of context" which have nothing do with context, they were repeated direct statements of fact lol

And the pitches that were absolutely atrocious, decent spin bowling unplayable and average spin bowling very dangerous, and btw were officially criticized by the ICC lmao

Officially criticized coz they are just idiots. It was no worse than most roads we see across the world. They just jump up and down everytime a pitch turns more than they want it to.

And I guess posting lol before and after every post does make it a very convincing argument. And the pitches were no less atrocious than the roads Aus are serving up. AGain, facts that you just disagree with.


And yes those posts were quoted out of context, given that they were each a response to an earlier post, quoting them without seeing what it was in response to, does not make them statements of fact. But then again, I dont expect you to understand the word "Fact".

 

[harsh.ag]

Yeah, no. You wouldn't.

edit: If you are honestly saying that you believe that Australia have been deliberately preparing pitches to suit their players then I can accept that. You have the right to believe what you want and if the structured explanations in this thread can't show you why they haven't then there's not much point continuing the discussion on this topic tbh.

"Agree to disagree" I guess

Indeed.

As a parallel, consider the time Laker and Lock (and Wardle) were ruling the roost in England in the 50s, the English prepared very spin friendly tracks. So much so that many experts regard Derek Underwood as superior to Laker despite the latter's superior record.

 

[honestbharani]

Just to put it beyond doubt:

Ordinary NZ players averages on "roads" in most recent tour of Aus:
Latham: 31
McCullum: 27
Watling: 16
Guptill: 13

all significantly worse than their career averages. Good players (Williamson, Taylor did well).

Ordinary SA spinners averages on most recent tour of India:

Tahir: 21 (pretty good bowler tbf)
Harmer: 25
Elgar: 27

all significantly better than their career



let's just keep this in mind next time someone tries to bring up "roads" in Australia helping batsmen as if it is equivalent to the recent India v SA spin-friendly pitches helping spinners.

Yes Elgar who became a regular AFTER Smith retired and Harmer who came on the scene last season, we will quote their numbers as better than their "career" numbers. How much did each bowl before this series btw? And again, reading statsguru doesn't mean you are knowledgeable about the game. Go ahead lol a response...

 

[TheJediBrah]

Officially criticized coz they are just idiots. It was no worse than most roads we see across the world. They just jump up and down everytime a pitch turns more than they want it to.

Yeah everyone's idiots. Players are idiots. Posters on this forum are idiots. The ICC are idiots. Poor honestbharani just a misunderstood genious.

And I guess posting lol before and after every post does make it a very convincing argument. And the pitches were no less atrocious than the roads Aus are serving up. AGain, facts that you just disagree with.

*sigh*

Just to put it beyond doubt:


Ordinary NZ players averages on "roads" in most recent tour of Aus:
Latham: 31
McCullum: 27
Watling: 16
Guptill: 13


all significantly worse than their career averages. Good players (Williamson, Taylor did well).


Ordinary SA spinners averages on most recent tour of India:


Tahir: 21 (pretty good bowler tbf)
Harmer: 25
Elgar: 27


all significantly better than their career






let's just keep this in mind next time someone tries to bring up "roads" in Australia helping batsmen as if it is equivalent to the recent India v SA spin-friendly pitches helping spinners.

And yes those posts were quoted out of context, given that they were each a response to an earlier post, quoting them without seeing what it was in response to, does not make them statements of fact. But then again, I dont expect you to understand the word "Fact".

What they were in response to did not change the direct statements in any way whatsoever lmao

 

[TNT]

The reason the pitches are being equated is this - Had the Aussies had the same team composition that India does, and the Saffers came visiting, you would see a "dustbowl" in MCG.

Also, time you acknowledged Murali Vijay as the GOAT player of spin.

A strawman argument, well that really changes nothing.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Indeed.

As a parallel, consider the time Laker and Lock (and Wardle) were ruling the roost in England in the 50s, the English prepared very spin friendly tracks. So much so that many experts regard Derek Underwood as superior to Laker despite the latter's superior record.

Interesting anecdote. I think the current Australian management should take a leaf out of their book. They're lagging behind.

Yes Elgar who became a regular AFTER Smith retired and Harmer who came on the scene last season, we will quote their numbers as better than their "career" numbers. How much did each bowl before this series btw? And again, reading statsguru doesn't mean you are knowledgeable about the game. Go ahead lol a response...

Obviously referring to their First-class stats. Not their career Test stats.

 

[OverratedSanity]

interesting tidbits but hardly affects the point tbh

Why not? Elgar's average of 27 is equivalent to a batsman going to a batsman getting scores of 46*, 6, 5*, 3* and ending up with an average of 60. Not really a great example to support your point that mediocre bowlers were successful on those pitches, since his actual output of 5 wickets was hardly significant at all.

To quote Pews, "stats" isn't a synonym for test batting/bowling average

 

[harsh.ag]

A strawman argument, well that really changes nothing.

Well it wasn't a "I have a dream" speech, so yeah it doesn't change things.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Why not? Elgar's average of 27 is equivalent to a batsman going to a batsman getting scores of 46*, 6, 5*, 3* and ending up with an average of 60. Not really a great example to support your point that mediocre bowlers were successful on those pitches, since his actual output of 5 wickets was hardly significant at all.

To quote Pews, "stats" isn't a synonym for test batting/bowling average

I meant that 1 slight issue that affects 1 of the players in discussion doesn't even come close to affecting the overwhelming trend of the player performances, as backed up by the statistics which are generally a very good representation of said performances.

Take away Elgar and it doesn't affect the overwhelming evidence of the statistics at all.

 

[TNT]

2008 series IND v SA

The ICC has given an official warning to the Indian board for the substandard pitch prepared for the third Test between India and South Africa in Kanpur, which India won by eight wickets in three days. It has asked the BCCI to take steps to ensure that pitches for future home Tests are prepared better.

“I have been made a villain for doing my job properly. I am and will always remain committed to cricket, not to any individual. What Dhoni has been asking for is anti-cricket. It is immoral and unethical. Never in my life have I doctored a cricket pitch. My health suffers due to this controversy and I have decided to stay away from Eden Gardens for a month,” Mukherjee had said in the morning, just four days ahead of the start of the Test. However, by evening Mukherjee refused to comment further.
ICC warns Indian board over Kanpur pitch | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

2015 series IND v SA

“The International Cricket Council (ICC) today announced that Jamtha Stadium in Nagpur has been given an official warning under the ICC Pitch Monitoring Process following the third Test between India and South Africa,” the game’s apex body said in a statement,
Crowe had observed that the pitch did not allow a fair contest between bat and the ball. The finding was made by ICC General Manager -Cricket, Geoff Allardice, and ICC chief match referee, Ranjan Madugalle, after watching footage of the match, reviewing the post-match reports from Crowe, and considering the response provided by the BCCI.
ICC warns Nagpur for preparing poor pitch for India vs SA third Test - The Hindu

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah everyone's idiots. Players are idiots. Posters on this forum are idiots. The ICC are idiots. Poor honestbharani just a misunderstood genious.



*sigh*

Just to put it beyond doubt:


Ordinary NZ players averages on "roads" in most recent tour of Aus:
Latham: 31
McCullum: 27
Watling: 16
Guptill: 13


all significantly worse than their career averages. Good players (Williamson, Taylor did well).


Ordinary SA spinners averages on most recent tour of India:


Tahir: 21 (pretty good bowler tbf)
Harmer: 25
Elgar: 27


all significantly better than their career






let's just keep this in mind next time someone tries to bring up "roads" in Australia helping batsmen as if it is equivalent to the recent India v SA spin-friendly pitches helping spinners.



What they were in response to did not change the direct statements in any way whatsoever lmao

Yeah.. direct statements are usually not a response to a post. Anyways, enjoy the cloud ****oo land of yours where they are both the same thing. In the real world though, it is not true.

And no those numbers are not a proper reflection because you seem to be thinking that cricket is played between one player and the pitch that is offered to him. It is almost as if there is not an opposition team and that the said opposition has no say in how the stats pan out for those players... When you prepare pitches that favor one type of bowling, then it is obvious batsmen from both sides will take a hit. The difference was that our batters were able to make 200 more often than not and RSA batsmen could not even cross 150 a number of times. The point is that the Aussie pitches aid their type of bowlers more than others, like the tracks in India again in the early 2000s and the 90s, where opposition will struggle to post scores and the home team will keep piling them up. You can always argue ;the 90s Indian side was awesome too, but for others who understand facts, will get why it is not true.

 

[honestbharani]

2008 series IND v SA



2015 series IND v SA

What I meant by idiots having a waaaaah.. Both were better than the roads served up in most other tests even in India itself in between these two tests.

 

[cnerd123]

Oh dear, are people calling the Nagpur pitch poor again?

Did no one learn anything from the last time we did this debate?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Oh dear, are people calling the Nagpur pitch poor again?

Did no one learn anything from the last time we did this debate?

No

 

[cnerd123]

Okay cool.

Carry on then.

 

[harsh.ag]

Oh dear, are people calling the Nagpur pitch poor again?

Did no one learn anything from the last time we did this debate?

No mother****er

 

[TNT]

Oh dear, are people calling the Nagpur pitch poor again?

Did no one learn anything from the last time we did this debate?

The people who called the Nagpur pitch not so much poor but that the pitch did not allow a fair contest between bat and the ball. Were Crowe and ICC chief match referee, Ranjan MadugalleI CC General Manager -Cricket, Geoff Allardice, and ICC chief match referee, Ranjan Madugalle.

Obviously they didn't learn from the last debate.

 

[TheJediBrah]

The people who called the Nagpur pitch not so much poor but that the pitch did not allow a fair contest between bat and the ball. Were Crowe and ICC chief match referee, Ranjan MadugalleI CC General Manager -Cricket, Geoff Allardice, and ICC chief match referee, Ranjan Madugalle.

Obviously they didn't learn from the last debate.

yeah but those guys are idiots tbh and should be whipped into shape by someone who actually knows about cricket, like honestbharani

 

[harsh.ag]

The people who called the Nagpur pitch not so much poor but that the pitch did not allow a fair contest between bat and the ball. Were Crowe and ICC chief match referee, Ranjan MadugalleI CC General Manager -Cricket, Geoff Allardice, and ICC chief match referee, Ranjan Madugalle.

Obviously they didn't learn from the last debate.

Yeah but they never give official warnings for pitches where both sides score 600 runs each in the first innings. Not a fair contest between bat and ball seems okay then.