2015 Final Test Rankings - Steve Smith #1, Williamson #2, Voges #11

[Adders]

Yeah this isn't going to get anywhere. You can "disagree" with me if you like, but I'm not stating an opinion, it's an obvious fact that Australia aren't in any way deliberately preparing pitches to suit them. If you disagree with that then I honestly don't know what to say to you lol, it's not even ambiguous if you've followed Australian cricket even casually over the last few years. No point saying anything else about that.

re. the 2010 MCG Test, no, nothing was deliberately prepared that way. Feel free to think that if you want. And regardless of what you think about that, again has no relevance. The discussion ITT re preparing of pitches was specifically referring to the last 2-3 years (I should know, I started it), as was explicitly stated several times. And you wonder why your comprehension skills are being questioned. Mind blowing.

Mate I've lived in Australia for over 20 years and it would be fair to say I've followed every home summer in that time. Again with the "mind blown" and "no point saying anything else" rhetoric...........that is not going to win you any arguments fella.

And you are stating an opinion not a fact..........cos how the **** would you know if these wickets are asked for??

2010. Aussies dominate for 3 days on a lively pitch in Brisbane and then get owned for 2 days when it turned to a road. Move to Adelaide and get spanked across 5 days on a typical Adelaide Roady Mcroad. Perth they smash England on a lively green top.............what the **** do you think they wanted to see in Melbourne?? Seriously Man wake up and smell the roses. That MCG wicket was built to order mate.

 

[honestbharani]

Facts are things that TJB disagrees with.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Mate I've lived in Australia for over 20 years and it would be fair to say I've followed every home summer in that time. Again with the "mind blown" and "no point saying anything else" rhetoric...........that is not going to win you any arguments fella.

And you are stating an opinion not a fact..........cos how the **** would you know if these wickets are asked for??

2010. Aussies dominate for 3 days on a lively pitch in Brisbane and then get owned for 2 days when it turned to a road. Move to Adelaide and get spanked across 5 days on a typical Adelaide Roady Mcroad. Perth they smash England on a lively green top.............what the **** do you think they wanted to see in Melbourne?? Seriously Man wake up and smell the roses. That MCG wicket was built to order mate.

As I said, if you truly believe that Australia are asking for these wickets, good on you. There's no point continuing the discussion because it isn't going to get anywhere.

. . . and we're right back to reading comprehension issues it seems. Come on son:

re. the 2010 MCG Test, no, nothing was deliberately prepared that way. Feel free to think that if you want. And regardless of what you think about that, again has no relevance. The discussion ITT re preparing of pitches was specifically referring to the last 2-3 years (I should know, I started it), as was explicitly stated several times. And you wonder why your comprehension skills are being questioned. Mind blowing.

I'm not interested in petty fights tbh, I can accept you believing whatever you want, 100% serious. But all you're doing is coming in and deliberately starting fights that aren't even relevant to the discussion, as if you've got pre-conceived conflicts in your head that are bursting to get out.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Facts are things that TJB disagrees with.

lol insisted yourself like 2 pages ago that you didn't think the pitches were being made to order and that anyone saying otherwise was quoting your posts "out of context", and now you're right back to saying they are?

would be funny if it wasn't so sad

edit: btw I'd like you to provide an example of a "fact" that you think i disagree with. If you don't then you're just an atrocious troll with nothing constructive to contribute and I will report you in an instant.

 

[harsh.ag]

Return of TheJediBrah.

 

[honestbharani]

lol insisted yourself like 2 pages ago that you didn't think the pitches were being made to order and that anyone saying otherwise was quoting your posts "out of context", and now you're right back to saying they are?

would be funny if it wasn't so sad

yeah... but not as sad as your comprehension skills. I do suspect they are being made to order but obviously they are not publicly demanding such pitches like other teams. Either way, my point is that their stats are padded by performances on conditions that help them and hinder opposition equally at home and whatever asterisk you wanna put next to blokes like Ashwin and Jadeja, you have to put the same next to Smith and Voges. End of.

 

[honestbharani]

lol insisted yourself like 2 pages ago that you didn't think the pitches were being made to order and that anyone saying otherwise was quoting your posts "out of context", and now you're right back to saying they are?

btw I'd like you to provide an example of a "fact" that you think i disagree with. If you don't then you're just an atrocious troll with nothing constructive to contribute and I will report you in an instant.

FActs like quoting my posts out of context, the idiotic trolling posts at the chucking thread, and the fact that you have no idea of what kinda pitches were actually out there in the Ind-SA series and you still decide that they deserve as asterisk next to them.


And about your threats............

 

[TheJediBrah]

yeah... but not as sad as your comprehension skills. I do suspect they are being made to order but obviously they are not publicly demanding such pitches like other teams. Either way, my point is that their stats are padded by performances on conditions that help them and hinder opposition equally at home and whatever asterisk you wanna put next to blokes like Ashwin and Jadeja, you have to put the same next to Smith and Voges. End of.

So you honestly think Jadeja is the 6th best bowler in the world?

As for rest, the reasons they're not quite the same situation has been discussed to death and there's no point just repeating again and again.

 

[TheJediBrah]

FActs like quoting my posts out of context, the idiotic trolling posts at the chucking thread, and the fact that you have no idea of what kinda pitches were actually out there in the Ind-SA series and you still decide that they deserve as asterisk next to them.


And about your threats............

lol anyone can go back and look at the posts you claim are "out of context" which have nothing do with context, they were repeated direct statements of fact lol

And the pitches that were absolutely atrocious, decent spin bowling unplayable and average spin bowling very dangerous, and btw were officially criticized by the ICC lmao

 

[Adders]

OK, Lets run this one past you Brah.

Not sure if you're old enough to remember the Oval wicket in 2009?? Well no doubt it was designed to ensure there was a result (personally I wasn't thrilled with it as I reckon Eng took a big gamble on wining the toss, which thankfully we did) But anyway there was a bit of an uproar from some quarters about it but something that intrigued me immensely was during a Warne stint in the comms box......he was talking about how the SCG wicket would change during the Shield season depending on how NSW were fairing in the season and who they were up against. It could change from a dry wicket to a green top to the flatest of flat roads.

So if the curators are looking after their domestic sides like that why would they not be doing the same for the test team?

 

[harsh.ag]

And the pitches that were absolutely atrocious, decent spin bowling unplayable and average spin bowling very dangerous, and btw were officially criticized by the ICC lmao

Would you then care to explain why the Saffers folded for 214 in the first innings at the washed out Bangalore test? It wasn't a spin friendly pitch.

 

[TNT]

OK, Lets run this one past you Brah.

Not sure if you're old enough to remember the Oval wicket in 2009?? Well no doubt it was designed to ensure there was a result (personally I wasn't thrilled with it as I reckon Eng took a big gamble on wining the toss, which thankfully we did) But anyway there was a bit of an uproar from some quarters about it but something that intrigued me immensely was during a Warne stint in the comms box......he was talking about how the SCG wicket would change during the Shield season depending on how NSW were fairing in the season and who they were up against. It could change from a dry wicket to a green top to the flatest of flat roads.

So if the curators are looking after their domestic sides like that why would they not be doing the same for the test team?

Curators were instructed by CA to make sure matches lasted 4-5 days, in fact I believe WACA curator Cam someone was sacked for not doing so. Curators were asked to flatten pitches not for the teams benefit but to make the matches last longer.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Gonna dumb it down as much possible as to why dustbowls in india helping spinners is not the same "roads" in Australia helping batsmen.

You have to be a genuinely good batsman to make big scores in Australia in recent years.

see: Williamson, Kohli etc

**** batsmen have not been making runs

Compare that to the Indian wickets in the SA series and every spinner had their stats boosted by helpful conditions, not just those that were genuine class.

Obvious dichotomy, shouldn't be any more confusion surely.

OK, Lets run this one past you Brah.

Not sure if you're old enough to remember the Oval wicket in 2009?? Well no doubt it was designed to ensure there was a result (personally I wasn't thrilled with it as I reckon Eng took a big gamble on wining the toss, which thankfully we did) But anyway there was a bit of an uproar from some quarters about it but something that intrigued me immensely was during a Warne stint in the comms box......he was talking about how the SCG wicket would change during the Shield season depending on how NSW were fairing in the season and who they were up against. It could change from a dry wicket to a green top to the flatest of flat roads.

So if the curators are looking after their domestic sides like that why would they not be doing the same for the test team?

Very good point, I think they should be. As do several others, in fact that's what started the mish-mash of bizarre and irrelevant complaining that's comprised most of this thread.

The Shield pitches was actually a big issue ~ 5 years ago IIRC. All sides were preparing result wickets because you needed to in order to reach the finals, and there were complaints that it wasn't preparing batsmen for Test cricket. So some task force or something was set up and for the last 3 or 4 years at leas the pitches have been more suitable for contests (ie something on offer for everyone). As to whether State sides are still altering pitches I haven't seen any incidence and I thin the general consensus is that it hasn't been happening over the last few years.

surely it wouldn't be that hard for them to prepare harder and faster test pitches, even if just to have better matches, if not to help the Aus team, win (they obviously don't need the help).

 

[TheJediBrah]

Would you then care to explain why the Saffers folded for 214 in the first innings at the washed out Bangalore test? It wasn't a spin friendly pitch.

Couldn't care less. Has very little relevance to the discussion tbh. I don't think there were official complaints about that wicket nor did the less-heralded SA spinners dominate with wickets?

But to humour you, probably a combination of ordinary batting and good bowling. I think I recall Jadeja bowling well that day and Ashwin is world class.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Pitch doctoring is cool and good and every country should do it.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Gonna dumb it down as much possible as to why dustbowls in india helping spinners is not the same "roads" in Australia helping batsmen.

You have to be a genuinely good batsman to make big scores in Australia in recent years.

see: Williamson, Kohli etc

**** batsmen have not been making runs

Compare that to the Indian wickets in the SA series and every spinner had their stats boosted by helpful conditions, not just those that were genuine class.

Obvious dichotomy, shouldn't be any more confusion surely.

Yeah I mostly do agree. But then you can't asterisk Ashwin's bowling figures since you admit he's world class anyway. On a less helpful SC pitch, he'd still take apart SA the way they were batting.

And I do agree that as much as I him, Jadeja number 6 in the world is a bit ridiculous

 

[TheJediBrah]

Yeah I mostly do agree. But then you can't asterisk Ashwin's bowling figures since you admit he's world class anyway. On a less helpful SC pitch, he'd still take apart SA the way they were batting.

And I do agree that as much as I him, Jadeja number 6 in the world is a bit ridiculous

I was never saying that Ashwin wasn't deserving. All I said was that Jadeja at 6 and the overly "helpful" conditions in recent series could potentially put some doubt on it.

But you know how it is, people come in wanting to start fights for whatever reason and read what they want to read

 

[TheJediBrah]

Just to put it beyond doubt:

Ordinary NZ players averages on "roads" in most recent tour of Aus:
Latham: 31
McCullum: 27
Watling: 16
Guptill: 13

all significantly worse than their career averages. Good players (Williamson, Taylor did well).

Ordinary SA spinners averages on most recent tour of India:

Tahir: 21 (pretty good bowler tbf)
Harmer: 25
Elgar: 27

all significantly better than their career



let's just keep this in mind next time someone tries to bring up "roads" in Australia helping batsmen as if it is equivalent to the recent India v SA spin-friendly pitches helping spinners.

 

[harsh.ag]

Gonna dumb it down as much possible as to why dustbowls in india helping spinners is not the same "roads" in Australia helping batsmen.

You have to be a genuinely good batsman to make big scores in Australia in recent years.

see: Williamson, Kohli etc

**** batsmen have not been making runs

Compare that to the Indian wickets in the SA series and every spinner had their stats boosted by helpful conditions, not just those that were genuine class.

Obvious dichotomy, shouldn't be any more confusion surely.

The reason the pitches are being equated is this - Had the Aussies had the same team composition that India does, and the Saffers came visiting, you would see a "dustbowl" in MCG.

Also, time you acknowledged Murali Vijay as the GOAT player of spin.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Harmer bowled well tbf to him, and that Elgar average is misleading. He had one wicket taking spell and nothing else. 5 wickets in 4 test matches isn't exactly evidence of the pitches helping a mediocre bowler.