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***Official*** South Africa in India 2015

Prince EWS

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
***** said:
Why would Kohli's value decrease later in the innings? He can hit big shots, runs hard, finds the gaps so well, and is masterful at pacing a runchase. If anything he's more vulnerable at 3, given he has issues with the moving ball outside his off stump.
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The main thing with Kohli is that when he gets set he really goes on with it and steers an innings, particularly if it's a chase. We saw in the first ODI that Rahane just threw away his half century, so even though he played a decent innings, it kind of wasted the opportunity he got to get set at the start without run rate pressure... then there was a bunch of run rate pressure on Kohli and he got out cheaply. If Kohli had batted three and got to 60 odd India would have won that in a canter IMO.

There are definitely pros and cons to each order. I full agree with what you've said about Rahane, and Kohli would still be good lower down, but you miss out on the awesomeness he provides at three, particularly chasing. As I've said before I'd bat Kohli at four when setting a target but move him up to three in chases. That'd mean Rahane was batting three when setting and floating when chasing, and he couldn't make useful contributions in that dual role I'd just drop him.
 
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cnerd123

cnerd123

likes this
Contra said:
LOL move Kohli to 5 to fit in a limited batsmen in limited overs, what a joke.
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Umm, I don't know how you are getting this, but this is not about fitting Rahane in. It's about optimising the resources we have.

I think Rahane/MSD/Kohli > Kohli/MSD/Rahane or Kohli/MSD/some untested batsman we don't even have yet.

Were we to drop Rahane and pick someone else to bat at 5, who would that be? Especially looking forward to 2019? Or not even 2019, lets just look forward to the Champions Trophy in 2017.

Kedar Jadhav, Robin Uthappa and Manoj Tiwary are all on the wrong side of 30.
Guys like Suryakumar Yadav and Gurkeerat Singh haven't even been tried at international level yet.
Manish Pandey, Mayank Agarwal, Shreyas Iyer and even Che Pujara are all top order batsmen.

I mean we already have question marks on number 7; if we ditch Rahane from the ODI setup all together then we have to figure out what to do with number 5 as well (Assuming Raina manages to keep scoring runs at 6).

Rahane deserves to be in the ODI side, given the lack of replacements we have. The only better option than Rahane to bat at 3 is Kohli. And there are no better options for 5 than Kohli himself.

Rahane - MSD - Kohli is probably the best use of the 3 batsmen we can manage.
 
cnerd123

cnerd123

likes this
Prince EWS said:
The main thing with Kohli is that when he gets set he really goes on with it and steers an innings, particularly if it's a chase. We saw in the first ODI that Rahane just threw away his half century, so even though he played a decent innings, it kind of wasted the opportunity he got to get set at the start without run rate pressure... then there as a bunch of run rate pressure on Kohli and he got out cheaply. If Kohli had batted three and got to 60 odd India would have won that in a canter IMO.

There are definitely pros and cons to each order. I full agree with what you've said about Rahane, and Kohli would still be good lower down, but you miss out on the awesomeness he provides at three, particularly chasing. As I've said before I'd bat Kohli at four when setting a target but move him up to three in chases. That'd mean Rahane was batting three when setting and floating when chasing, and he couldn't make useful contributions in that dual role I'd just drop him.
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I think that's what India is looking to do, with MSD coming up to 4 in chases as well. Too soon to tell though. Need to see them carry on with this pattern for a couple more ODI series.
 
Pratters

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
This is tense. Tahir is a terrific bowler in odis but morne and rabada could have been put away for more ones and twos. RRR claiming rapidly.
 
Contra

Contra

Cricketer Of The Year
***** said:
Umm, I don't know how you are getting this, but this is not about fitting Rahane in. It's about optimising the resources we have.

I think Rahane/MSD/Kohli > Kohli/MSD/Rahane or Kohli/MSD/some untested batsman we don't even have yet.

Were we to drop Rahane and pick someone else to bat at 5, who would that be? Especially looking forward to 2019? Or not even 2019, lets just look forward to the Champions Trophy in 2017.

Kedar Jadhav, Robin Uthappa and Manoj Tiwary are all on the wrong side of 30.
Guys like Suryakumar Yadav and Gurkeerat Singh haven't even been tried at international level yet.
Manish Pandey, Mayank Agarwal, Shreyas Iyer and even Che Pujara are all top order batsmen.

I mean we already have question marks on number 7; if we ditch Rahane from the ODI setup all together then we have to figure out what to do with number 5 as well (Assuming Raina manages to keep scoring runs at 6).

Rahane deserves to be in the ODI side, given the lack of replacements we have. The only better option than Rahane to bat at 3 is Kohli. And there are no better options for 5 than Kohli himself.

Rahane - MSD - Kohli is probably the best use of the 3 batsmen we can manage.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by lack of replacements? If India are simply not going to give other batsmen a chance to get "international experience" then how the hell do you plan on finding replacements? Just give a bunch of you guys a go like Hooda/Yadav/whoever and see how they go at 7, whats the worst thing that can happen? They fail? We have time for them to fail. Look, India need a lower order hitter, not a top order batsmen, It's like a job in a company and you post an opening, that opening as it stands is for a lower order hitter because IDEALLY you want Kohli at 3 and Dhoni at 4, Raina is fine at 5 because he's played quality innings in the past. #7 is there for an AR (Axar/Jadeja/Binny/whoever else). So your looking for a guy who can finish an innings at 6.

India simply need to give new young guys a go at 6 and see how they go instead of saying "oh we don't have anything so we have to play Rahane and fit him in at the top cuz he's **** at the position we need filled". It's a terrible way to go about handling the situation. I personally am a big fan of Rahane btw, but ultimately it's the team combination that matters and either we try Rahane towards the end of the innings as a finisher to see how he goes or we get someone else. I really don't want to disrupt Kohli and Dhoni at the top.

EDIT: Also Robin Uthappa is not even 30 yet...
 
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duffer

duffer

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The Saffies have bowled well but it's a startling lack of urgency by our two best chasers to let the runs to balls differential to get so big.
 
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