***Official*** New Zealand in Zimbabwe and South Africa 2015

[straw man]

Anyway, I thought the chase could have been tricky given the pitch and Tahir, but looks like Guptill and Latham batted very well.

 

[Athlai]

Surpassed both Turner and Astle in ODIs.

 

[Flem274*]

Nope

 

[Immenso]

While you don't get pitches like that anymore in NZ at test and Plunket level, you still do at the lower levels where the full knowledge of turf science aren't applied.

The NZ players would have played plenty of school and club cricket on that sort of surface. Pulling back your length and your pace would have been a natural instinctive response by the bowlers.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

Defending 204 is never easy.

Batting was what really let SA down. Did NZ bowl really well?

Sure, defending 204 isn't easy but SA put down three catches, one of which was an absolute dolly.

The BCs did bowl very well, esp. Milne.

 

[Kippax]

If you are having trouble with the live stream - NZC have just put this on their twitter - hope it's okay to post here

http://livestream.com/accounts/8448...width=640&height=360&autoPlay=true&mute=false

Still streaming btw, if you drag it back 20+ hours.

 

[Hurricane]

Nope

This.

Guptill has a ways to go before he can be compared to Turner, I have never studied the stats of Turner I am just going by the quality of his play and the fact that often Turner had no one else. Guptill has many other quality team mates.

 

[hendrix]

There are some calls on cricinfo for Latham to take the gloves and Ronchi to be dropped.

Latham taking the gloves would provide great balance to the team but I don't think it should happen, and if it does it should be in a couple of years time. The pay off for investing purely in his batting is that we get a quality test and ODI opening batsman. No need to compromise on that. Maybe once he's properly established we can look at doing that come the next world cup so we can squeeze in another bowler or something.

In the mean time, Watling simply must be picked for our next ODI series.

 

[Hurricane]

There are some calls on cricinfo for Latham to take the gloves and Ronchi to be dropped.

Latham taking the gloves would provide great balance to the team but I don't think it should happen, and if it does it should be in a couple of years time. The pay off for investing purely in his batting is that we get a quality test and ODI opening batsman. No need to compromise on that. Maybe once he's properly established we can look at doing that come the next world cup so we can squeeze in another bowler or something.

In the mean time, Watling simply must be picked for our next ODI series.

I agree he shouldn't take the gloves - why risk a broken finger. Ronchi is fine and is going through a lean patch. He is a useful enough ODI player. He deserves to be persevered with. If we dropped him I would go for the boy from Otago before Watling anyway, DeBoorders. He is a quality batsman in limited overs. I don't see a role for Watling unless we are doing a straight him for Elliot swap. It is the only role he can play.

 

[Flem274*]

Elliott's improved death batting (plus his ability to pick up singles at will which makes him such an awesome #5) make me happy to have him at #6 as both a strike feeder and secondary hitter to Anderson or Neesham tbh

People forget what made McCullum so good at #7 in the middle 00s was his ability to rotate the strike.

McCullum (c)
Guptill
Williamson
Taylor
Watling (wk)
Elliott
Anderson
Sodhi
Milne
Southee
Boult

that's our best eleven imo and of course get plenty of games into guys like Latham, Worker, Neesham, Santner, Bracewell, Henry and Wheeler to see what they're made of. Munro and McClenaghan are less fashionable but shouldn't be discounted either.

edit - and I'm backing the batting of Santner, Sodhi and Dougeh to only improve as well, with the ND boys having quite decent lower middle order cake potential which would give us some good batting depth.

 

[hendrix]

I agree he shouldn't take the gloves - why risk a broken finger. Ronchi is fine and is going through a lean patch. He is a useful enough ODI player. He deserves to be persevered with. If we dropped him I would go for the boy from Otago before Watling anyway, DeBoorders. He is a quality batsman in limited overs. I don't see a role for Watling unless we are doing a straight him for Elliot swap. It is the only role he can play.

Ronchi's finishing is coming from 7. I honestly think Watling provides more value in terms of his glove work, and if we get in trouble he's security. That's greater value overall.

If Latham really pushes his case, McCullum replaces Elliott.

 

[Zinzan]

I agree he shouldn't take the gloves - why risk a broken finger. Ronchi is fine and is going through a lean patch. He is a useful enough ODI player. He deserves to be persevered with. If we dropped him I would go for the boy from Otago before Watling anyway, DeBoorders. He is a quality batsman in limited overs. I don't see a role for Watling unless we are doing a straight him for Elliot swap. It is the only role he can play.

Ronchi isn't fine as far as I'm concerned. Since that amazing one-off innings of 170, he's scored 197 runs in 17 innings at an abysmal average of 12.31. Atrocious in anyone's language. He's shown he really isn't good under pressure and the fact almost half of his dismissals seem to be caught at deep mid-wicket suggests he's not a great learner either.

And that's saying nothing about how ordinary/poor his keeping has been in recent times.

 

[hendrix]

It's tough batting at 7, he has to slog from ball one so it's not going to be a good job for the average. He's been poor, undoubtedly though.

His keeping has been atrocious though.

 

[hendrix]

Elliott's improved death batting (plus his ability to pick up singles at will which makes him such an awesome #5) make me happy to have him at #6 as both a strike feeder and secondary hitter to Anderson or Neesham tbh

People forget what made McCullum so good at #7 in the middle 00s was his ability to rotate the strike.

McCullum (c)
Guptill
Williamson
Taylor
Watling (wk)
Elliott
Anderson
Sodhi
Milne
Southee
Boult

that's our best eleven imo and of course get plenty of games into guys like Latham, Worker, Neesham, Santner, Bracewell, Henry and Wheeler to see what they're made of. Munro and McClenaghan are less fashionable but shouldn't be discounted either.

edit - and I'm backing the batting of Santner, Sodhi and Dougeh to only improve as well, with the ND boys having quite decent lower middle order cake potential which would give us some good batting depth.

Agree for now, but I think in a year or so McCullum will go back to 5 to replace Elliott and Latham will open. Need to get a left hander at the top of the order.

 

[Flem274*]

I expect Baz to retire at the end of the summer tbh, at least from ODIs. He posted on one of the talkback pages what drugs he takes just to get on the field and that back of his is on borrowed time.

It will be Latham and Guptill for the Champions Trophy with probably a new #5 by then too.

 

[Zinzan]

It's not even his disgusting average that concerns me the most, it's the number of times in the last 6-7 months he's just had to survive and tap it around to close out the game when we've been chasing ... yet time and time again he'd manage to find some stupid and unnecessary way to get himself out.

 

[Zinzan]

I'm not actually totally against Latham taking the gloves purely in ODIs if he continues to show this improvement in his short-form batting. If just gives us such a great balance and it some ways I don't mind if NZ are 90/2 after 20overs if one of Gupitll, Latham or KW is still batting with Taylor, with the likes Bmac, Anderson, Neesham/Munro, Milne still to come.

Also, let's not forget McCullum really only returned to open prior to the WC once it was confirmed Jesse was unavailable. I still think there's huge value having him down the order to finish off an innings with the likes of Anderson and Neesham, even without the batting PP being around.

I really like the look of;

Guptill
Latham +
KW
Taylor
McCullum*
Anderson
Neesham/Munro
Milne
Southee/Henry/Wheeler/Bracewell
Sodhi/Santner
Boult


With these guys on the fringes...

Wheeler
Munro
Santner
Henry
Watling
Elliott
Bracewell

 

[Flem274*]

i really really don't want latham keeping because he's pretty average and to work on his keeping he'd have to sacrifice time working on his batting.

the selectors decided he was an opening batsman, let him bat for now.

plus mccullum scoring ridiculously fast 30+ scores is one of our biggest strengths. his 70 odd or whatever it was in the semi-final made life so much easier for everyone that followed. SA were always under the pump despite the huge total because baz put things back to even stevens in two minutes.

 

[Hurricane]

It's not even his disgusting average that concerns me the most, it's the number of times in the last 6-7 months he's just had to survive and tap it around to close out the game when we've been chasing ... yet time and time again he'd manage to find some stupid and unnecessary way to get himself out.

If his keeping has gone to the dogs then yes drop him. You cannot have a Kack Keeper. I was only speaking about his batting. Yes he is not very intelligent, but we are talking ODIs here. I wouldn't let him within cooee of the test team even as 12th man and even though he did ok in his one test. Biggest case of beginners luck I have seen.

Who do you really want batting at number 7 for you in ODIs.

A Big hitter - check - he does that
Someone who doesn't take long to get their eye in - check - he goes for it almost immediately and doesn't waste deliveries
Someone who can get the occassional 50 - check - once every ten games he will get a 50 even though he is on a lean trott at the moment.
Someone who isn't dissatisfied batting 7 and really wants to be number 4 or 5 - check - Ronchi isn't complaining to anyone about his lot in life to anyone.
Someone who can contribute something else to the team - check - he is a keeper
Someone who has nerves of steel and can close out games - sort of a check - sometimes he comes through.

I DWTA with Flem's team. Corey Anderson is a young batsman and wants to contribute more than batting number 7 he will not be happy there and 6 is also too low for Elliot who really if Ross wasn't around would be our number 4.

My team for meaningless bilateral series

Latham
Guptil
Kane
Ross
Elliott
Neesham or Anderson - whoever is fit (we knew those two were going to be injury cases and that has proved to be correct).
DeBoorder or Ronchi
Bracewell
Sodhi (has shaded NMac recently and its time to invest in the next world cup now)
Milne
Meh (Henry McLeakin Wheeler all much of a muchness and are cannon fodder but they will suffice in meaningless matches)

 

[Howsie]

Jeez, imagine the damage a McCullum, Anderson, Neesham, Santner 5-8 could do in New Zealand. Carnage.