Australia lack world class batting talent

[NZTailender]

DP Smith*
SG Fitzsimmons
AP Cloete
CR Butler
AJ Blackman
AP Chaulk+
DP Richards
NG Hoy
NA Borcich
NL Patrick
NS Pickup

Would consider switching Patteh for Wilson, and moving him to #6, but honestly, Patteh is great and I love him, while Wilson supports Essendon. Easy choice.

Such a gun line up. Richards has got you well covered in the A/R dept so you don't really miss Wilson.

 

[Howsie]

That's it. His list A record is quite impressive and he had a massive year last year in domestic ODIs. Still reckon he should be opening in the Shield and looking to open for Australia. That should be his goal.

Ha. Always seen abit of Daniel Flynn in his game, that move would complete it.

 

[hendrix]

I think Australia's problems stem from their bowling as much as their batting. You can't leave Johnson out, but he is still a very one-dimensional bowler. On a pitch with pace and bounce he's a nightmare, but he just doesn't have the accuracy and consistency of swing/reverse to be as effective on slower surfaces like the ones he'll be playing on in this series, and he hasn't had quite the same explosive pace since the conclusion of the 2013/14 season. Starc is classy but will still leak runs which is problematic when you already have Johnson in the team. And Lyon will struggle on surfaces that nullify his topspinner.

I think Starc is still struggling to transfer is ODI talent to the test stage. Looking at the bowlers records seems to be the obvious thing here and there's one bowler whose record doesn't stand up to the rest. A lot of people have jumped on Johnson but I can't reconcile that view with what I saw in the match. Despite more wickets, I felt that Starc was the one to release the pressure most of the time.

Hazlewood hasn't yet learned to bowl very well to left handers and that's an issue when Starc isn't bowling well. They were lucky in a sense that Lyon really stood up this test.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Such a gun line up. Richards has got you well covered in the A/R dept so you don't really miss Wilson.

Indeed. Hoy and Borcich both handy with the stick as well, would be very confident against any side around atm.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I dunno about this so much. England made 430 odd in the first dig which was about par on that surface given the overhead conditions. The attack had them 3/40 and should have been 4/40 or so. Johnson was ineffective but I wouldn't put him at 2009 levels of awful, and I thought from what I saw that Lyon bowled well. He certainly didn't leak a lot of runs.

Yeah. As has usually been the case roughly since Harris came into the team (and the other bowlers that followed him since then), the bowling wasn't the problem. Honestly after being 1 for 130 odd with two set batsmen at the crease against an old ball, Australia should have finished day 2 with 6-7 wickets in hand, not 5, and should have gone to the new ball with the same number of wickets remaining and thus been able to get through that period to match England's total. If they'd done that, they'd likely have won the game, or at least had a very gettable target. Same basic idea applies to the Root catch since England would have had a tough task from 4 down for 43, though I don't care as much about dropped catches since I don't think that's a major, consistent problem with the team. Not being able to occupy the crease for long periods is, and it's just been so long since it felt like Australia could really dominate an attack and make a huge total.

 

[Flem274*]

Australia should really be begging Rogers to stay. Criminally underrated batsman.

I mean over the past few days I've read calls for Voges to be dropped, the two spuds to be (rightly) dropped, and over this we have the looming retirement of Rogers and maybe Clarke.

Who actually plays your next test match in the worst case scenario? Shaun Marsh lel.

I reckon the lack of a #3 is killing straya. They've been forced to rectify it by moving the heir apparent there and sacrificing the middle order but it also makes Oz more vulnerable. Before when 1 down usually meant 2 down it gave Clarke and Smith a big rebuilding job. Now 2 quick wickets can mean Smith in the shed and an out of nick Clarke trying to do a big rebuilding job with newbies and pretenders. Atm get past the top four and you're into the tail unless Voges can make #5 his own.

So yeah get a ****ing #3.

 

[Hurricane]

Australia should really be begging Rogers to stay. Criminally underrated batsman.

I mean over the past few days I've read calls for Voges to be dropped, the two spuds to be (rightly) dropped, and over this we have the looming retirement of Rogers and maybe Clarke.

Who actually plays your next test match in the worst case scenario? Shaun Marsh lel.

I reckon the lack of a #3 is killing straya. They've been forced to rectify it by moving the heir apparent there and sacrificing the middle order but it also makes Oz more vulnerable. Before when 1 down usually meant 2 down it gave Clarke and Smith a big rebuilding job. Now 2 quick wickets can mean Smith in the shed and an out of nick Clarke trying to do a big rebuilding job with newbies and pretenders. Atm get past the top four and you're into the tail unless Voges can make #5 his own.

So yeah get a ****ing #3.

I am Steve Smith's greatest critic. And I am hopeful that much of what the now banned Grumpy predicted will come to pass re his exposure by good bowling plans. That said you can't fault his leadership and courage. Australia needed a number 3 and he put his hand up and said I will do it. If he can get through the next few years with a half decent record in that lynch pin position he will win my respect.

To answer your point directly, I don't think they do have any other candidates thumping down the door, and I like the message he is sending by him doing it rather than shoving some unproven player into the boiler room.

 

[Red]

Australia should really be begging Rogers to stay. Criminally underrated batsman.

Correct. And I'd love to see him be successful in England and decide he can commit to the home summer.

This is a bit unconventional, but what about (for the home summer):

Rogers
Burns (?)
Warner
Clarke
Smith
MMarsh
Nevill

Tbh, this gives me heaps more confidence than what we're rocking now. Think Smith is more a middle order bat than a top order, and I just think Warner could gun it at 3 with a couple of more old school openers above him.

 

[Swingpanzee]

Would like Rogers to play the tests against NZ (because am a huge fan), but Burns play against the WI

disagree with Warner at 3. Also would rather Smith at 4 and Clarke at 5

 

[Justo]

Correct. And I'd love to see him be successful in England and decide he can commit to the home summer.

This is a bit unconventional, but what about (for the home summer):

Rogers
Burns (?)
Warner
Clarke
Smith
MMarsh
Nevill

Tbh, this gives me heaps more confidence than what we're rocking now. Think Smith is more a middle order bat than a top order, and I just think Warner could gun it at 3 with a couple of more old school openers above him.

If you were going down this route it would be better to swap Burns with Warner IMO. While Warner's a gun I think he's better suited being given a license to try to deflate the bowlers rather than coming in 1 down and having to try knuckle down.

Overall though I'd say just leave Smith at 3 for now. The guys had 3 Tests there and has hardly looked out of his depth. If he was getting out for single digits to high quality new ball bowling then you could say he has a problem but he largely got through that and couldn't convert his starts.

As for the question in the thread I don't think Australia lack world class batting talent. We're pretty much comparable to most other line ups going around at the moment and our batting issues only tend to surface in foreign overseas conditions which is no different to every country bar South Africa atm.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Does Lehmann take some blame for this?

No, I don't think so. I think it's more to do with the style of pitch here, you can get on a roll and keep on going up through the gears the longer that you are in - even the second new ball isn't much of a threat; often it's an even better time to bat on many wickets.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Warner at 3 would be an absolutely brain-dead move

 

[Red]

Warner at 3 would be an absolutely brain-dead move

That's a bit hyperbolic, innit?

 

[adub]

Smitteh is gonna kill it at 3. No problem at all there. He'll give Punter's record @3 a real nudge. And yeah, moving Warner out of opening is a bad idea. He'll post a big total soon enough.

I said before he was picked that Buck wouldn't be a superstar but would be good for a dependable 40 average. Achieved that and has been great besides Warner but this will be his last series. I'd like to see Burns get that spot, but could live with Smarsh who seems to have got the inside running. Who ever misses out will be shadowing Voges, so we're reasonably covered. I've been a massive critic of Smarsh, but he does seem to have finally discovered some consistency, and Burns has done the smart thing by moving up to open for Qld and prospered there.

Things get a bit thin after that though and with Clarke being in perhaps his last two years we need some other guys in the Shield to step up. I had hopes for Carters, but he had a dog of a year last year. Maddinson might learn to bat time (but perhaps not), and Maxwell might come into contention again (but probably more as a no.6 v Marsh and maybe Moises). Horsehead Lynn will be there or there abouts if he can stay fit and make runs this summer, Ferg has had two solid summers on the trot so another big one could have him in the frame. Young guys like Bancroft and Handscomb need to back up last year's good results with another big year.

So no we can't say that a Waugh era dominating top 7 is just around the corner, but we're not at wrist slashing stage yet either.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Smitteh is gonna kill it at 3. No problem at all there. He'll give Punter's record @3 a real nudge. And yeah, moving Warner out of opening is a bad idea. He'll post a big total soon enough.

I said before he was picked that Buck wouldn't be a superstar but would be good for a dependable 40 average. Achieved that and has been great besides Warner but this will be his last series. I'd like to see Burns get that spot, but could live with Smarsh who seems to have got the inside running. Who ever misses out will be shadowing Voges, so we're reasonably covered. I've been a massive critic of Smarsh, but he does seem to have finally discovered some consistency, and Burns has done the smart thing by moving up to open for Qld and prospered there.

Things get a bit thin after that though and with Clarke being in perhaps his last two years we need some other guys in the Shield to step up. I had hopes for Carters, but he had a dog of a year last year. Maddinson might learn to bat time (but perhaps not), and Maxwell might come into contention again (but probably more as a no.6 v Marsh and maybe Moises). Horsehead Lynn will be there or there abouts if he can stay fit and make runs this summer, Ferg has had two solid summers on the trot so another big one could have him in the frame. Young guys like Bancroft and Handscomb need to back up last year's good results with another big year.

So no we can't say that a Waugh era dominating top 7 is just around the corner, but we're not at wrist slashing stage yet either.

Yes

 

[Chrish]

Australia away Test record since 2013:

Played = 17
Won = 4
Drawn = 2
Lost = 11

 

[adub]

Australia away Test record since 2013:

Played = 17
Won = 4
Drawn = 2
Lost = 11

Yeah it's pretty stark isn't it. Apart from minnows and as good as home conditions in SA we rely on the weather to scrape a draw.

I wonder if the fact the SCG isn't the old slow turner it used to be has something to do with it? Guys just not getting any experience in different conditions that you used to see when there was a bit more variety in the pitches.

 

[Midwinter]

I wonder if the fact the SCG isn't the old slow turner it used to be has something to do with it? Guys just not getting any experience in different conditions that you used to see when there was a bit more variety in the pitches.

Good point

 

[NUFAN]

Yeah it's pretty stark isn't it. Apart from minnows and as good as home conditions in SA we rely on the weather to scrape a draw.

I wonder if the fact the SCG isn't the old slow turner it used to be has something to do with it? Guys just not getting any experience in different conditions that you used to see when there was a bit more variety in the pitches.

Not sure I really want to watch us lose at home too though.

 

[harsh.ag]

Came to the realization that Rogers is just a much better version of Sadagoppan Ramesh