Australia lack world class batting talent

[Salamuddin]

This, pretty much. Aus have 3 players who could make any side in the world and at a stretch you could include Rogers in that too. Being not unbeatable isn't a desperate situation

3 batsmen - no way ? At best its two and probably realistically one. Clarke has been good but not outstanding in the last 2.5 years of test cricket.

 

[Howe_zat]

That's not what I said. They would make any other team, comfortably.

 

[Cabinet96]

Don't think it's really an individual thing with Australia. They just seem to collectively bat really poorly most of the time on slow pitches, against anything resembling a decent attack. Don't usually like implying things like South Africa away doesn't count, because the conditions aren't that different to Australia. However, there is some truth to it; pace and bounce is clearly not an issue for them.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

You can say that about any other country and just substitute the names with their best 2-3 players.

Except that Clarke was doing it 2-3 years ago, Warner 2 years ago and Smith the last 12 months, they're not doing it together. On current form only Smith would be in a World XI side, the rest are batting poorly or declining, or are just straight up not good enough. The biggest struggle with the team at the moment is that 1 wicket = 3 wickets, nearly every innings.

 

[Riggins]

Why are all the Aussies getting so defensive? Our batting has been **** for two years. Warner, Clarke and Smith have made it look decent.

Nah it's actually not **** - it has looked decent because it is decent. Half the batsmen are genuinely good and half are total ****. Combined with a pretty good tail, overall it's a decent batting lineup. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Pakistan has an outstanding line up at the moment, but how long Misbah and Younis will be there with Sarfraz and Azar is a problem. Possibly Pakistan wins this.

Cook, Root and no Pieterson for England.

Williamson, Watling (second best test bat wicket keeper around at the moment) McCullum and Taylor (maybe) for NZ. People will throw toys about McCullum - but so many runs last year. So many.

India have Kohli and potential.

No more Sanga and Jayawardene, but still Mathews for Sri Lanka.

AB and Amla don't need a lot of support, I don't particularly think FAF is world class.

just lol

India probably have batsmen in their A-team better than Watling and Taylor

New Zealand have one World-class Test Batsman. I would pick McCullum as my world XI wicket-keeper bat because he is awesome to watch and cool as ****. (Even though I know he doesn't keep anymore)

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

The Australian batting line up is improving.

2nd Test: India v Australia at Hyderabad (Deccan), Mar 2-5, 2013 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

2nd Test: Australia v Pakistan at Abu Dhabi, Oct 30-Nov 3, 2014 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[NZTailender]

Except that Clarke was doing it 2-3 years ago, Warner 2 years ago and Smith the last 12 months, they're not doing it together. On current form only Smith would be in a World XI side, the rest are batting poorly or declining, or are just straight up not good enough. The biggest struggle with the team at the moment is that 1 wicket = 3 wickets, nearly every innings.

Would be interested to know your current World XI smitt3h

 

[Flem274*]

away from home you don't have the haddin butt save. he's very good at bailing out aussie with quick 50s in home games, often with a trolling tailender at the other end.

warner is world class everywhere but he's definitely h4x at home.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

just lol

India probably have batsmen in their A-team better than Watling and Taylor

New Zealand have one World-class Test Batsman. I would pick McCullum as my world XI wicket-keeper bat because he is awesome to watch and cool as ****. (Even though I know he doesn't keep anymore)

Ha.

Name a wicket keeper batsman better than Watling who is not Sarfraz Ahmed.

Taylor - yeah its a maybe - currently slipped to 12th in the world, but had a marvellous odi series in England - look a return of form from him.

Love to hear who you suggest is bettter than Watling.... what - Jos Butler? Hasn't even got a test ton yet...

Taylor makes the Aussie test team right now if he was available.

World Class does not mean current World XI - or there only ever be 6 world class batsman at the maximum for 9 or 10 test playing nations. Get a grip.

 

[Dan]

What does Watling's wicketkeeping have to do with him being considered a world class batsman (he clearly is ftr, I just don't understand why you're defending that by saying 'no other wicketkeepers are better')

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

What does Watling's wicketkeeping have to do with him being considered a world class batsman (he clearly is ftr, I just don't understand why you're defending that by saying 'no other wicketkeepers are better')

Ha. Read the original post in this thread. Then think about dropping Haddin for - I don't know - Hashim Amla or Kane Williamson, and then ask yourself, who keeps wicket?

Australia are going to lose this Ashes. And it is because their batting isn't good enough.
The holes in their batting were glossed over in this home summer's success but they have always been there.

It's not hard to see why:
1) Warner is formidable in Australia but an average player outside Australia.
2) Rogers is an average talent - lets' be perfectly frank about this. He's done ok in England but England is like a second home to him given how much county cricket he has played. He was thoroughly exposed when he played the South Africans last year. He's really lucky that he's only played in England or rather soft opposition (England, INdia)
at home. He's damn lucky he's retiring at the end of this series because I think he would be a dead duck in subcontinental conditions when Australia tour in 2016 /2017.
3) Smith - world class
4) Clarke - world class but clearly on the wane now.
5) Voges - another journeyman - let's make no bones about it. Voges has only made the Aussie team due to the complete paucity in Australian batting stocks.
If he was genuinely world class he would made the Aussie team earlier than he actually did.
6) Watto - crap
7) Haddin - has never been much of a run scorer outside Australia and of late hasn't even made runs at home.

Shaun Marsh the reserve - is a wildly inconsistent player.
AUstralia missed a massive opportunity this summer (at home against India and away to a young WIndies side) to entrench some promising young players with real talent fr the future in their top seven (joe BUrns, Mitch Marsh, Jordan Silk, Peter Neville) and they are going to pay a big price for that - in terms of coughing up the Ashes to the POms.

Part of a world class batting line up includes a wicket keeper bat these days and runs out put is expected from anyone in the top 7. Thanks Flower, Sanga, Gilchrist, Prior, Watling, Buttler, Sarfraz Ahmed, etc. The OP included a wicket keeper bat as part of the run scoring machine of world class bats. I clearly agree with him.

Watling is upto averaging 46.45 as a keeper now. Well on his way. Does the fact that the wicket keeper bats output where a little less than others enter into the equation of whether the player is world class? Absolutely. Every side needs a keeper bat. Its a question of world class wicket keeper batsman.

 

[ImpatientLime]

oh cool we're talking about new zealand again.

 

[weldone]

Australia's problem isn't the top 4, but it's 5-7

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Australia no longer has 7 world class batsman with another half a dozen with potential awaiting their chance. They just have a normal line up of proven quality, established players possibly on their way out and unproven players trying to establish themselves.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Ha.

Name a wicket keeper batsman better than Watling who is not Sarfraz Ahmed.

Taylor - yeah its a maybe - currently slipped to 12th in the world, but had a marvellous odi series in England - look a return of form from him.

Love to hear who you suggest is bettter than Watling.... what - Jos Butler? Hasn't even got a test ton yet...

Taylor makes the Aussie test team right now if he was available.

World Class does not mean current World XI - or there only ever be 6 world class batsman at the maximum for 9 or 10 test playing nations. Get a grip.

Not sure why being a wicket-keeper is relevant all of a sudden

Taylor might make the aussie team if they went with six bats and dropped Watson. If Voges was a kiwi he probably would have played 80 Tests and be averaging 45.

And I never said World Class = World XI. I was making a statement about how I like Brendon McCullum.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Australia no longer has 7 world class batsman with another half a dozen with potential awaiting their chance. They just have a normal line up of proven quality, established players possibly on their way out and unproven players trying to establish themselves.

why the **** did they all have to come at once

I would kill for a Brad Hodge, Martin Love, Matthew Elliott, Michael Bevan, Jamie Cox etc right now.

Watling is upto averaging 46.45 as a keeper now.

If he can maintain that he would definitely be considered a World-Class wicket-keeper batsman. A career average of 40 I wouldn't consider being a World-class Batsman alone though, even if his recent form has been slightly better.

If BJ Watling is a world-class batsman then so would Chris Rogers and Adam Voges

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Not sure why being a wicket-keeper is relevant all of a sudden

Because the original poster included a wicket keeper bat as part of the 7 batsman. Read above. A world class wicket keeper bat (averaging 40/45/50) gives any batting line up a boost. Someone has to keep wicket. They're going to bat. Hey - get a world class keeper batsman.

Taylor might make the aussie team if they went with six bats and dropped Watson.

Oh please. He is behind Smith, Clarke and Warner. Walks into the team.

If Voges was a kiwi he probably would have played 80 Tests and be averaging 45.

Well he certainly would have played test cricket well before this year. His average you're merely guessing that he will end up with a 45 average. He may well finish his test career this year well below that number. Nice to have a century on debut, but 45 over a career is a really good test career. Does Voges make the current NZ side? I don't think he does. He doesn't open. He won't displace Taylor, Williamson, McCullum, and he is not an allrounder... He won't displace Watling as a specialist bat even as per the last test. Sorry, in all seriousness, he doesn't make the side. But I do agree that he would have debut'd years before now. Voges numbers at FC are no more special than say Jesse Ryder, who wasn't in the test eleven (12th man) two years ago when his final indiscretion caused his farewell. Ryder was a very solid test player, with talent to have gone further.

And I never said World Class = World XI. I was making a statement about how I like Brendon McCullum.

Okay.

 

[Pratters]

Bah, this is nonsense.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

If he can maintain that he would definitely be considered a World-Class wicket-keeper batsman. A career average of 40 I wouldn't consider being a World-class Batsman alone though, even if his recent form has been slightly better.

If BJ Watling is a world-class batsman then so would Chris Rogers and Adam Voges

Watling averages over 46 as a wicket keeper batsman. You can pretend that the wicket keeping factor is not relevant all you like. But someone has to keep wicket, and it is relevant when comparing the wicket keepers around the world so unless Chris Rogers and Adam Voges do some wicket keeping I do not know about, you're making an irrelevant comparison. Watling by wicket keeping and averaging what he does with the bat is world class, where someone who merely bats may not be.

But its funny you bring up the world class batsman alone at a career average of 40. If McCullum has another year of ridiculous scoring, his career average may hit 40. Will he be a world class batsman? You can opt out because his batting average as a batsman sole (not wicket keeper) would exceed 50. Which helps to prove my point above.