Australia lack world class batting talent

[Spark]

Does Lehmann take some blame for this?

The more I think about it, the more I think he should.

 

[Prince EWS]

Oh I absolutely agree. Which is why this continues to be exceptionally frustrating. It's not a question of ability/personnel/structural issues with the team, it just requires them to not bat like ****ing dumbasses.

I think his point though is that this is the case with most mediocre to decent Test players -- it's not that they can't play well in certainly circumstances, but that they can't do it regularly, often for mental rather than technical reasons. Australia's current batting lineup isn't somehow unique in this, nor or is it a problem easily solved. The difference between being decent and very good is often just application rather than basic ability, and there have sure been a lot of just decent players in Test history.

 

[Uppercut]

People being a bit too quick to pigeon-hole Voges I think.

I think so yeah. His first innings dismissal was completely just bad luck on second viewing, was a perfectly good shot and execution but the ball ballooned off a half-volley length. Would still expect him to do fine this series.

 

[Top_Cat]

I think so yeah. His first innings dismissal was completely just bad luck on second viewing, was a perfectly good shot and execution but the ball ballooned off a half-volley length. Would still expect him to do fine this series.

Second dig out was a worry, though.

 

[Uppercut]

The more I think about it, the more I think he should.

The modern dilemma seems to be about maintaining an aggressive overall strategy without abandoning necessary defensive tactics. It's tricky and Lehmann has decided that any mistakes he makes are always going to be on the "too aggressive" side.

 

[Top_Cat]

Not saying I know anything but I'm not too sure. Certainly as a bat, for a while there he went that way and was what got him dropped soon after debuting in India. But you don't score as many CC runs as he did without a very patient game and the way, say, Rogers bats was more in line with his own method in his early game and then once he made the Test side again. He learnt the lesson as a bat so I'd be surprised if he was advising the current Aussie bats to go all out in the face of good bowling.

 

[Uppercut]

They're not really going all out though. I don't think their batting strategy is ridiculous, as it was at times in the 2010/11 Ashes. It just strikes a balance that's closer to too aggressive than too defensive. Same as Clarke's captaincy.

 

[Furball]

Nah it's actually not **** - it has looked decent because it is decent. Half the batsmen are genuinely good and half are total ****. Combined with a pretty good tail, overall it's a decent batting lineup. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's no different to how it's been for the last 6-7 years. Looks pretty good on paper and throughout that period you've always had at least a couple of world class batsmen - it's just that Australia's middle order absolutely loves falling in a heap.

The batting being a bit crap is a problem that goes back a lot longer than 2 years.

 

[Red]

I think part of the issue over the past few years is that guys haven't been able to establish themselves. Burns, Khawaja, SMarsh, PHughes...all these guys.

Once it's established you're good enough for test cricket, you should be given 15-20 tests to show it. Obv unless you're in for an injury etc

 

[TheJediBrah]

Of those 4 guys, Khawaja is the one who definitely should have been given a better run. Hughes too early on i guess, shouldn't have been dropped in 2009 after 2 Ashes tests. The only reason S Marsh keeps being picked is that no one else is knocking the door down in the Shield (until Voges this year), and the selectors love him for some reason.

 

[Spark]

Khawaja is mediocre. Has done nothing to deserve a further call up.

 

[Furball]

Khawaja's shown nothing at all in his stints to suggest that him playing more Tests would be a good idea.

 

[Spark]

I still remember his second innings dismissal at Durham. One of the few times I could confidently say I myself could have avoided that dismissal.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Khawaja is mediocre. Has done nothing to deserve a further call up.

Absolutely agree.

Khawaja's shown nothing at all in his stints to suggest that him playing more Tests would be a good idea.

1 or 2 tests at a time is hardly a stint. There's a couple of occasions early on in his career where he probably shouldn't have been dropped, however there is no way he should be close to selection now.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Khawaja is mediocre. Has done nothing to deserve a further call up.

Khawaja's shown nothing at all in his stints to suggest that him playing more Tests would be a good idea.

So disappointing. Remember watching the highlights of his ***y maiden OD ton and feeling the hype.

 

[91Jmay]

Khawaja one of the worst players of spin I've ever seen in an Aussie team. He made Swann look like Murali on an 5th day Indian pitch.

 

[Red]

So disappointing. Remember watching the highlights of his ***y maiden OD ton and feeling the hype.

That's it. His list A record is quite impressive and he had a massive year last year in domestic ODIs. Still reckon he should be opening in the Shield and looking to open for Australia. That should be his goal.

 

[Bahnz]

I think Australia's problems stem from their bowling as much as their batting. You can't leave Johnson out, but he is still a very one-dimensional bowler. On a pitch with pace and bounce he's a nightmare, but he just doesn't have the accuracy and consistency of swing/reverse to be as effective on slower surfaces like the ones he'll be playing on in this series, and he hasn't had quite the same explosive pace since the conclusion of the 2013/14 season. Starc is classy but will still leak runs which is problematic when you already have Johnson in the team. And Lyon will struggle on surfaces that nullify his topspinner.

 

[Burgey]

Agree with the OP and Smitteh to an extent here. Australia's batting has been prone to collapses for a few years now. The likes of Burns should have been persisted with IMO, and the loss of The Prince will be keenly felt as the Ashes goes on and especially afterwards. Rogers was always a short term solution and tbf to the bloke I think he's exceeded the expectations of most. Watto has been awful for ages - it's not that he's in a bad trot, it's that he keeps getting out the same way. Clarkeh needs to lift massively if we are to win this series.

 

[Burgey]

I think Australia's problems stem from their bowling as much as their batting. You can't leave Johnson out, but he is still a very one-dimensional bowler. On a pitch with pace and bounce he's a nightmare, but he just doesn't have the accuracy and consistency of swing/reverse to be as effective on slower surfaces like the ones he'll be playing on in this series, and he hasn't had quite the same explosive pace since the conclusion of the 2013/14 season. Starc is classy but will still leak runs which is problematic when you already have Johnson in the team. And Lyon will struggle on surfaces that nullify his topspinner.

I dunno about this so much. England made 430 odd in the first dig which was about par on that surface given the overhead conditions. The attack had them 3/40 and should have been 4/40 or so. Johnson was ineffective but I wouldn't put him at 2009 levels of awful, and I thought from what I saw that Lyon bowled well. He certainly didn't leak a lot of runs.