Pick your nation's 24 best ODI players throughout history

[kiwiviktor81]

Crowe had 100 first class wickets @ 33, and bowled over 200 ODI overs. He's at least a legitimate fifth bowler in ODIs.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Because there is no bowler fatigue or weather factors in the simulator, the Test version we had of version 2 of this simulator suggested it was always better to enforce the follow on.

Declarations are not that hard with a bit of math. The simulator can look at your lineup and their strike rates and their own bowlers and say "The opposition is likely to score 307 runs off 80 overs, giving us a 47% chance of victory, so if we wait 5 overs we have a 73% chance etc.

Of course, that wouldn't account for what you could do if you played it in Head to Head mode. Still, a well-programmed Test cricket simulator AI would be a nightmare to beat over the course of a series.

I think its generally better to enforce the follow on because it really removes the chance of losing (bar Headingly '81 and Laxman v Australia). But yeah - stuff all of those games. If follow ons are enforced, you could fatigue the bowlers SR.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Crowe had 100 first class wickets @ 33, and bowled over 200 ODI overs. He's at least a legitimate fifth bowler in ODIs.

And has previously been selected as an allrounder to bowl ten overs.

The only thing I am doing that wouldn't happen in a match is have him open the bowling into the wind so Hadlee can bowl first change. Doesn't mean that that shouldn't happen, though.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

The Test version, practically speaking, needs a fatigue factor otherwise you can stack the batting down to 9 and pick two bowlers who bowl 45 overs a day each. This makes programming the ODI simulator much easier.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

I don't think Crowe opening the bowling is any weirder than opening with Patel, and we did that in real life haha.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

The Test version, practically speaking, needs a fatigue factor otherwise you can stack the batting down to 9 and pick two bowlers who bowl 45 overs a day each. This makes programming the ODI simulator much easier.

Hmmm. Well if you're Sri Lanka ATG, you may only want Murali and Herath bowling, and they may not get as a fatigued than say Hadlee and Bond. Looks like there would be a lot of work for you to individually assess the spinners who could bowl all day, from those who needed to be spelled.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Hmmm. Well if you're Sri Lanka ATG, you may only want Murali and Herath bowling, and they may not get as a fatigued than say Hadlee and Bond. Looks like there would be a lot of work for you to individually assess the spinners who could bowl all day, from those who needed to be spelled.

You could easily do a sim for NZ bowling, Boult Hadlee Bond all bowl 20 overs a day, the rest in as Coney call ed it "Crop rotation". Which could accurately be Vettori for 30 overs.

Bond out every 2nd and 3rd match for extra realism.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

I don't think Crowe opening the bowling is any weirder than opening with Patel, and we did that in real life haha.

I thought that at the time. And now we have Jesse opening the bowling in NZ domestic T20's and first class in county. But not often in 50 over cricket, I don't think.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

Hmmm. Well if you're Sri Lanka ATG, you may only want Murali and Herath bowling, and they may not get as a fatigued than say Hadlee and Bond. Looks like there would be a lot of work for you to individually assess the spinners who could bowl all day, from those who needed to be spelled.

What we did in version two was a subalgorithm that gradually increased a fast bowler's stats up until the end of over 3 to account for finding rhythm, then decreased at the same rate to account for fatigue. This made 6-7 over spells optimal.

Slow bowlers the same only the cycle is 25 or so overs.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

What we did in version two was a subalgorithm that gradually increased a fast bowler's stats up until the end of over 3 to account for finding rhythm, then decreased at the same rate to account for fatigue. This made 6-7 over spells optimal.

Slow bowlers the same only the cycle is 25 or so overs.

Yeah but the reality is - on day 5, a great spinner is going to bowl almost unchanged in persuit of victory. I agree, there are many variables to be addressed in test cricket that make it such a daunting exercise.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

Sure, but there's also a variable that increases the BowlSR of spinners as the match progresses. By memory in version 2 a spinner on Day 5 was 30% more effective, meaning that even with a minor fatigue penalty a great spinner will still be worth bowling.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

Now added the Zimbabwe ATG team if anyone wants to give it a crack. NUFAN's suggestions seemed pretty good, no-one objected, and I have NUFAN marked as an especially astute poster so it should be good.

 

[Hurricane]

What we did in version two was a subalgorithm that gradually increased a fast bowler's stats up until the end of over 3 to account for finding rhythm, then decreased at the same rate to account for fatigue. This made 6-7 over spells optimal.

Slow bowlers the same only the cycle is 25 or so overs.

Interesting. As a batsman I have always found an opening bowlers 3rd over the hardest to face. I got out many times in that over, before I just started to give up scoring runs and concentrated on surviving those 6 deliveries.

The 4th over is easier to bat through.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

Anyone want to give a West Indies 24 a crack? CaptainGrumpy wants me to add them next...

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Heh, I just want to take on Coronis' team from the other thread.

I got $1.50 for ATG NZ against the 2015 WC champions Australia. So maybe there is a chance of $1.99 against the West Indies. Even without Lance Cairns and Oram.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

All of Coronis's players ought to be in the 24, except for maybe Larry Gomes, whose stats aren't that great.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

All of Coronis's players ought to be in the 24, except for maybe Larry Gomes, whose stats aren't that great.

With their bowling attack, I need all the help I can get. I want him to get a tonne (off 150 balls)

 

[cnerd123]

What is unrealistic about Crowe bowling? Are you just making assumptions about Crowe being a batsman solely for his career? Are you thinking he was never selected as a all rounder to bowl ten overs in a match?

Crowe had 100 first class wickets @ 33, and bowled over 200 ODI overs. He's at least a legitimate fifth bowler in ODIs.

And has previously been selected as an allrounder to bowl ten overs.

Please find me someone -outside of this Sim thread- who would pick Crowe to bat 8 and bowl 10 overs in the NZ ATG XI.

Javed Miandad, Steve Waugh, Sachin Tendulkar, all started as 5th bowlers who would often bowl 10 overs in a game. I don't see how that is relevant when you are selecting them for an ATG XI. You don't pick a player to be an allrounder when they've only played that role for a brief time in their career.

I don't see why you both are arguing this, instead of just accepting the fact that you are gaming the sim, and accepting that this is a major flaw in averages-only sims.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Please find me someone -outside of this Sim thread- who would pick Crowe to bat 8 and bowl 10 overs in the NZ ATG XI.

Javed Miandad, Steve Waugh, Sachin Tendulkar, all started as 5th bowlers who would often bowl 10 overs in a game. I don't see how that is relevant when you are selecting them for an ATG XI. You don't pick a player to be an allrounder when they've only played that role for a brief time in their career.

I don't see why you both are arguing this, instead of just accepting the fact that you are gaming the sim, and accepting that this is a major flaw in averages-only sims.

I would totally have my sim batting line up play in a real match in that batting order. If given the choice of bowling Crowe or Corey Anderson, I take Crowe to bowl.

Its a fairly standard batting order, with 3 pinch hitters batting ahead of Crowe. ODI cricket is changing, you have McCullum opening. Maxwell is reguarly being promoted. So is Dhoni. The world has changed *****.

 

[cnerd123]

I would totally have my sim batting line up play in a real match in that batting order. If given the choice of bowling Crowe or Corey Anderson, I take Crowe to bowl.