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New Zealand doom and gloom thread

hendrix

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
No because Latham was scouted for the opening role. Batting at number 4 did him no favours. And he was always going to debut in the opening role in the west Indies regardless of what happened.

He was pretty much the only top order batsman on the domestic circuit with genuine, non-limited class.

Absolute blessing that they picked Ruds before him because he wasn't ready yet but even reading through some old Kippax comparisons it was pretty clear that there was only one batsman other than KW with quality in that young group.
 
C

CaptainGrumpy

Banned
Flem274* said:
Well at least Guptill is scoring runs.
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I was all for his spot in the WC team and II was all for his test recall. The games against Australia will make or brake him in my opinion. His record against them is ridiculously poor in both ODI and test cricket.

If he gets through next summer and scores runs against the ****tail of Rhino, Starc, Johnson, Hazlewood, Pattinson et al then that will be great for New Zealand cricket.
 
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wellAlbidarned

wellAlbidarned

International Coach
CaptainGrumpy said:
I was all for his spot in the WC team and II was all for his test recall. The games against Australia will make or brake him in my opinion. His record against them is ridiculously poor in both ODI and test cricket.

If he gets through next summer and scores runs against the ****tail of Rhino, Starc, Johnson, Hazlewood, Pattinson et al then that will be great for New Zealand cricket.
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if guptill fails against australia he's still probably our best second opening option tbh.
 
Riggins

Riggins

International Captain
CaptainGrumpy said:
And people really think this is new for the players to do this? Its old and been around for ever and a day. Its the social media and the general public engaging with social media that has changed the game and raised the public's expectations - but as for members of the general public picking fights or trying to get him ridiculously drunk - that is just bizarre behaviour by the general population. Almost Australian like. I expect more from New Zealanders.
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This bit is the best.
 
C

CaptainGrumpy

Banned
ODI Team:

Post Vettori there is a new selection battle.

Santner or McCullum.

Both are economical bowlers and supposed handy bats which is relevant because they are likely to be batting at 8 with a three seam tail following. (That said, I went Vettori over McCullum any day as he was a much superior bowler to McCullum to make McCullum's better batting of no real significance).

Although Santner may have better prospects with the blade in hand long term but McCullum has experience. From what I have seen Santner has the wood to develop his batting past McCullum's ability with the bat. Santner has been slightly more miserly with the ball in his domestic career than McCullum.

So who would you select?

I would like to Santner get a run in one game at least of the three.
 
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D

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
Bilateral ODIs are all about building to World Cups, really. To that end, it has to be Santner, surely.
 
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CaptainGrumpy

Banned
Dan said:
Bilateral ODIs are all about building to World Cups, really. To that end, it has to be Santner, surely.
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That is 4 years away and winning is winning, however.

But I agree that Nathan McCullum would be doing well to be available for the next world cup - but given that he is a pyjama specialist spin bowler which is the least taxing job in the cricket world bar Hoggie's sole T20 specialising - I think he could well be fit enough for the next world cup.
 
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D

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah but he sucks.

Santner may be a fractionally worse player right now, but getting him experience now ahead of the mediocre NMac will win NZ games in the future. There's certainly a case for succession planning; even more so when the player they're succeeding is rubbish to begin with.
 
NZTailender

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
I was barely a fan of NcCullum when he was playing and doing well. Selecting him is a step backwards imo.
 
Athlai

Athlai

Not Terrible
NcCullum being undervalued here I reckon. Was more than a gap filler. Kept the runs down pretty solidly, gun in the field and a useful bat.
 
NZTailender

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Athlai said:
NcCullum being undervalued here I reckon. Was more than a gap filler. Kept the runs down pretty solidly, gun in the field and a useful bat.
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Yeah look not saying he didn't do a job, but that's such a BLACKCAPS circa 2005 job description. What I've liked about the side in this recent acceleration into becoming a serious team and not the plucky underdog punching above it's weight, is that it's discarded the players and mentality that epitomise plucky underdogs that punch above their weight. You want world class players putting the game away in a pro manner and operating on that level constantly where dipping below and having a poor game is the anomaly, not reaching above and being congratulated on that.
 
C

CaptainGrumpy

Banned
NZTailender said:
Yeah look not saying he didn't do a job, but that's such a BLACKCAPS circa 2005 job description. What I've liked about the side in this recent acceleration into becoming a serious team and not the plucky underdog punching above it's weight, is that it's discarded the players and mentality that epitomise plucky underdogs that punch above their weight. You want world class players putting the game away in a pro manner and operating on that level constantly where dipping below and having a poor game is the anomaly, not reaching above and being congratulated on that.
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Your post was actually inspirational and I thought the sentiments were well articulated even if I think that was harsh on Nathan McCullum in the negative and premature to suggest of Santner in the positive.

Outstanding for wider application within the team, however.
 
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NZTailender

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
CaptainGrumpy said:

Your post was actually inspirational and I thought the sentiments were well articulated even if I think that was harsh on Nathan McCullum in the negative and premature to suggest of Santner in the positive.

Outstanding for wider application within the team, however.
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Well Santner isn't there yet, but the WC is four years away and I do agree somewhat bilateral series feel like practices to identify and get team dynamics right for when you do enter major tournaments, so I'd prefer we try and develop him rather than go back to someone who was always second to Vettori. Harsh on NMac sure and he's a great servant to NZ cricket and I won't deny he's won us matches in the past. But yeah, future, young players, wanna win, team spirit, etc etc.

And yet I don't think Grant WC Hero Elliott should be dropped.
 
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