All time best ODI team

[viriya]

I think you are one of the only ones that agrees with those selections.

When it comes to Sanga, there's Ponting, Lara and Kallis as options. There's really not much to choose between these 4 when it comes to the batting, and Sanga brings great keeping as well. I can see why you would pick Kallis over him for his bowling though.

The Shakib selection was mainly to promote discussion because I think he's a decent pick - Flintoff or Klusener would probably be safer picks though I agree.

 

[BigBrother]

Flintoff and Klusener both bowl (and bat) worse away from home like Shakib so it's not just him.



Both Flintoff and Klusener do worse when considering just top 8 opposition. Shakib has also played more ODIs than Flintoff already so it's not a longevity issue.

I don't think you understand what longevity means. Also, I'm pretty sure Shakib has considerably less games against the top 8 than the other two.

 

[viriya]

I don't think you understand what longevity means. Also, I'm pretty sure Shakib has considerably less games against the top 8 than the other two.

Flintoff played ODIs for 10 years.. Shakib has played for 9 years. If you can't compare their careers now not sure when you can.

 

[weldone]

For most part of his career have seen him bat at 3 or 4; haven't seen him open the innings. But checked the stats, and I must say, his record is impressive. Agree with you, he will be a good choice for an opener. Thanks for sharing the info!

Yeah Lara's one of those ones who you watch play, check the stats and ask yourself "why the **** didn't he open more?"

CBFd checking stats but he must've opened a bit against Aus because I remember him opening a fair bit

Ya he opened mostly pre-1996, when he was clearly the best batsman in the world in all forms of the game...After the retirements of Viv, Richardson and Hooper he slowly dropped himself down the order because he thought the middle-order needs more experience. I never supported his decision. His best innings opening came against bowlers like Donald, Wasim, Waqar.

Scorecard - 1992-1993 Total International Series - 6th Match - Pakistan v West Indies - 19/02/1993
Scorecard - 1992-1993 Total International Series - 8th Match - South Africa v West Indies - 23/02/1993
Scorecard - 1992-1993 West Indies v Pakistan - 1st Match - 23/03/1993
Scorecard - 1992-1993 West Indies v Pakistan - 2nd Match - 26/03/1993
Scorecard - 1993-1994 Pepsi Champions Trophy - 7th Match - Pakistan v West Indies - 05/11/1993

I must say that he was equally good at no. 3. However, no. 4 and below didn't suit him that much, because he was the kind of player who liked to spend time at the crease before starting to dominate.

 

[weldone]

Shakib is a better all-rounder than all three of them and will bowl his 10 overs so there are 5 front line bowlers already with sachin, viv and ab helping if necessary.

The only problem I have with Shakib is that his batting isn't suited to batting in the slog overs at all. (something a no. 7 batsman has to do 99% of the times)

I have the same problem with Imran Khan - if you select these guys you can't make them bat at no. 6 or 7 in ODI

 

[viriya]

The only problem I have with Shakib is that his batting isn't suited to batting in the slog overs at all. (something a no. 7 batsman has to do 99% of the times)

I have the same problem with Imran Khan - if you select these guys you can't make them bat at no. 6 or 7 in ODI

Yea good point.. he's too much cake and not enough icing for that role.. so Flintoff/Klusener probably a better fit. I would pick Shakib over them in a situation where you need the innings rebuilt though.

 

[watson]

Ya he opened mostly pre-1996, when he was clearly the best batsman in the world in all forms of the game...After the retirements of Viv, Richardson and Hooper he slowly dropped himself down the order because he thought the middle-order needs more experience. I never supported his decision. His best innings opening came against bowlers like Donald, Wasim, Waqar.

Scorecard - 1992-1993 Total International Series - 6th Match - Pakistan v West Indies - 19/02/1993
Scorecard - 1992-1993 Total International Series - 8th Match - South Africa v West Indies - 23/02/1993
Scorecard - 1992-1993 West Indies v Pakistan - 1st Match - 23/03/1993
Scorecard - 1992-1993 West Indies v Pakistan - 2nd Match - 26/03/1993
Scorecard - 1993-1994 Pepsi Champions Trophy - 7th Match - Pakistan v West Indies - 05/11/1993

I must say that he was equally good at no. 3. However, no. 4 and below didn't suit him that much, because he was the kind of player who liked to spend time at the crease before starting to dominate.

Lara Opening, 1992-2006
Innings = 52
Average = 46.18
Strike Rate = 73.56

Lara at No.3, 1992-2007
Innings = 106
Average = 45.84
Strike Rate = 85.98

The overall average for top order batsman (1 to 3) from 1992 to 2007 was 33, the Strike Rate was 71. By comparison Lara's record puts him in the highest bracket for that era - probably in the top 3 along-side Bevan and Anwar. I don't think that there was a better No.3 batsman during the 1990s and early 2000s. Here are some of Lara's classic innings made at first drop;

3rd ODI: West Indies v Australia at Port of Spain, Mar 12, 1995 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
5th Match: Sri Lanka v West Indies at Sharjah, Oct 16, 1995 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
7th Match: Australia v West Indies at Brisbane, Jan 5, 1997 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
3rd QF: South Africa v West Indies at Karachi, Mar 11, 1996 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
10th Match: Australia v West Indies at Perth, Jan 12, 1997 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Incidently, Lara's World Cup record isn't too shabby either - 1225,runs at 42.24 during 33 innings. Strike Rate was 86.27.

 

[Saint Kopite]

So, Lefties XI v/s Righties XI:-


Lefties XI:-

1. Adam Gilchrist. (+) (*)
2. Sanath Jayasuriya.
3. Brian Lara.
4. Kumar Sangakkara.
5. Michael Bevan.
6. Michael Hussey.
7. Lance Klusener.
8. Richard Hadlee.
9. Daniel Vettori.
10. Wasim Akram.
11. Curtly Ambrose.


Righties XI:-

1. Sachin Tendulkar.
2. Mark Waugh.
3. Ricky Ponting.
4. Viv Richards.
5. AB De Villiers.
6. MS Dhoni. (*)(+)
7. Kapil Dev.
8. Shaun Pollock.
9. Joel Garner.
10. Muttiah Muralitharan.
11. Glenn McGrath.


Since there aren't that many great left arm bowlers in the ODI history, I have included a couple of bowlers who were right arm bowlers but were left handed batsmen.

 

[Saint Kopite]

So, Lefties XI v/s Righties XI:-


Lefties XI:-

1. Adam Gilchrist. (+) (*)
2. Sanath Jayasuriya.
3. Brian Lara.
4. Kumar Sangakkara.
5. Michael Bevan.
6. Michael Hussey.
7. Lance Klusener.
8. Richard Hadlee.
9. Daniel Vettori.
10. Wasim Akram.
11. Curtly Ambrose.


Righties XI:-

1. Sachin Tendulkar.
2. Mark Waugh.
3. Ricky Ponting.
4. Viv Richards.
5. AB De Villiers.
6. MS Dhoni. (*)(+)
7. Kapil Dev.
8. Shaun Pollock.
9. Joel Garner.
10. Muttiah Muralitharan.
11. Glenn McGrath.


Since there aren't that many great left arm bowlers in the ODI history, I have included a couple of bowlers who were right arm bowlers but were left handed batsmen.

 

[Red]

Being a purist and all, here is my all lefties XI with left arm bowlers:

Adam Gilchrist
Sanath Jayasuriya
Brian Lara
Kumar Sangakkara
Mike Hussey
Michael Bevan
Shakib Al Hasan
Dan Vettori
Wasim Akram
Mitchell Starc
Chaminda Vaas

 

[viriya]

So, Lefties XI v/s Righties XI:-


Lefties XI:-

1. Adam Gilchrist. (+) (*)
2. Sanath Jayasuriya.
3. Brian Lara.
4. Kumar Sangakkara.
5. Michael Bevan.
6. Michael Hussey.
7. Lance Klusener.
8. Richard Hadlee.
9. Daniel Vettori.
10. Wasim Akram.
11. Curtly Ambrose.


Righties XI:-

1. Sachin Tendulkar.
2. Mark Waugh.
3. Ricky Ponting.
4. Viv Richards.
5. AB De Villiers.
6. MS Dhoni. (*)(+)
7. Kapil Dev.
8. Shaun Pollock.
9. Joel Garner.
10. Muttiah Muralitharan.
11. Glenn McGrath.


Since there aren't that many great left arm bowlers in the ODI history, I have included a couple of bowlers who were right arm bowlers but were left handed batsmen.

No Vaas in an ODI lefties XI is a crime. Probably the 2nd best lefty ODI bowler.

 

[midge]

Flintoff and Klusener both bowl (and bat) worse away from home like Shakib so it's not just him.



Both Flintoff and Klusener do worse when considering just top 8 opposition. Shakib has also played more ODIs than Flintoff already so it's not a longevity issue.





I can see why you would pick Flintoff or Klusener over Shakib in ODIs. Symonds was barely a bowler to be considered an all-rounder though. Flintoff and Klusener were both good enough to be selected just for one of the disciplines just like Shakib.

One thing I think is ignored is that he performs with both bat and ball at the same time consistently than any of those players.

Shakib has scored approx. 45% of his runs against minnows, compared to Flintoff's approx. 17% and Klusener's 13%. In bowling more than 47% of Shakib'swickets are against minnows compared to Flintoff's approx. 20% and Klusener's 12.5%. I think that gives a fair idea of who would be a better choice for an all-rounder.

 

[midge]

So, Lefties XI v/s Righties XI:-


Lefties XI:-

1. Adam Gilchrist. (+) (*)
2. Sanath Jayasuriya.
3. Brian Lara.
4. Kumar Sangakkara.
5. Michael Bevan.
6. Michael Hussey.
7. Lance Klusener.
8. Richard Hadlee.
9. Daniel Vettori.
10. Wasim Akram.
11. Curtly Ambrose.


Righties XI:-

1. Sachin Tendulkar.
2. Mark Waugh.
3. Ricky Ponting.
4. Viv Richards.
5. AB De Villiers.
6. MS Dhoni. (*)(+)
7. Kapil Dev.
8. Shaun Pollock.
9. Joel Garner.
10. Muttiah Muralitharan.
11. Glenn McGrath.


Since there aren't that many great left arm bowlers in the ODI history, I have included a couple of bowlers who were right arm bowlers but were left handed batsmen.

I am going with the righties

 

[midge]

Being a purist and all, here is my all lefties XI with left arm bowlers:

Adam Gilchrist
Sanath Jayasuriya
Brian Lara
Kumar Sangakkara
Mike Hussey
Michael Bevan
Shakib Al Hasan
Dan Vettori
Wasim Akram
Mitchell Starc
Chaminda Vaas

Starc is too young for an All time ODI XI

 

[Red]

Starc is too young for an All time ODI XI

Not with a left arm pre-requisite he aint.

 

[viriya]

Shakib has scored approx. 45% of his runs against minnows, compared to Flintoff's approx. 17% and Klusener's 13%. In bowling more than 47% of Shakib'swickets are against minnows compared to Flintoff's approx. 20% and Klusener's 12.5%. I think that gives a fair idea of who would be a better choice for an all-rounder.

That's really not fair on Shakib - he can't choose his opposition. He never gets to play vs his own team either lol.

 

[Red]

Early Era (1971-1995) vs Modern Era (1996-2015)

Early Era

Gordon Greenidge
Desmond Haynes
Viv Richards *
Dean Jones
Javed Miandad
Kapil Dev
Ian Healy +
Wasim Akram
Joel Garner
Dennis Lillee
Abdul Qadir

Modern Era

Sachin Tendulkar
Sanath Jayasuriya
Ricky Ponting
Virat Kohli
AB DeVilliers
MS Dhoni
Andrew Symonds
Andrew Flintoff
Shane Warne
Allan Donald
Glenn McGrath

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

It's silly to compare spinning all rounder to fast bowling all rounder. It's like comparing aubrey faulkner vs keith miller or something

 

[Debris]

All-Rounder != Total Win Shares

Bah, heretic. I banish thee.

Anwar
Dhawan
Amla
Tendulkar
Kohli
Watson
Gilchrist
Bond
Ajmal
Muralitharan
McGrath

Winshare XI post 2001. Pretty decent.

 

[viriya]

Bah, heretic. I banish thee.

My rerun with bug fixes has Watson < Tendulkar anyway