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New Zealand doom and gloom thread
- Thread starter Bahnz
- Start date
kiwiviktor81
International Debutant
I think you're right Flem in that you point out that much of the success is culturally and structurally off the field.
Look at the All Blacks. They can take mediocre players like Jerome Kaino and Sam Whitelock and they go from mediocre to good to very good to excellent to the best in the world in about 2-4 years. That's because they know the sport inside out right down to the finest details.
This Black Caps side is starting to do something similar. Look how fast Kane Williamson went from mediocre to 6th in the world in ODIs. Look how fast Tim Southee went from bumbling in the swamp of mediocrity until his rapid improvement came, at the same time as getting his mental attitude sorted. Look how fast Trent Boult went from absolutely nowhere to being our chief destroyer at this CWC. I predict that Henry, Latham and Milne will be utterly world class in a few years for the same reasons. We've got the culture of professionalism and excellence which we've lacked for 20+ years, save for the odd genius like Hadlee, Crowe and Jones who figured their own games out.
This is the main reason why I'm so bullish about the side looking forward to the 2019 CWC and the Test and ODI matches in between. We've very. very good at the moment, but we're going to be a superb team all-round if this keeps up, even after we lose Baz, Vettori, Elliott, Taylor and Mills.
Look at the All Blacks. They can take mediocre players like Jerome Kaino and Sam Whitelock and they go from mediocre to good to very good to excellent to the best in the world in about 2-4 years. That's because they know the sport inside out right down to the finest details.
This Black Caps side is starting to do something similar. Look how fast Kane Williamson went from mediocre to 6th in the world in ODIs. Look how fast Tim Southee went from bumbling in the swamp of mediocrity until his rapid improvement came, at the same time as getting his mental attitude sorted. Look how fast Trent Boult went from absolutely nowhere to being our chief destroyer at this CWC. I predict that Henry, Latham and Milne will be utterly world class in a few years for the same reasons. We've got the culture of professionalism and excellence which we've lacked for 20+ years, save for the odd genius like Hadlee, Crowe and Jones who figured their own games out.
This is the main reason why I'm so bullish about the side looking forward to the 2019 CWC and the Test and ODI matches in between. We've very. very good at the moment, but we're going to be a superb team all-round if this keeps up, even after we lose Baz, Vettori, Elliott, Taylor and Mills.
straw man
Hall of Fame Member
Only had time to skim read the above posts so will get back to them later. However the next major cultural shift will be when McCullum retires and Williamson (presumably) takes over as captain. Williamson is a vastly different character to McCullum, quieter and seems more in the mold of Ross Taylor than of McCullum. I admit to being a little concerned about how that will go, especially as we and many other sports teams haven't had great experiences with making a captain of the most talented player, the best player and the most focused on his own success. I hope Williamson can grow into it and bring his own flavour to the role.
Until then though, I hope McCullum hangs around a few more years and tastes some more big successes.
Until then though, I hope McCullum hangs around a few more years and tastes some more big successes.
wellAlbidarned
International Coach
The only thing Williamson has in common with Taylor is being quiet. Totally different peronsalities imo.
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Williamson also has captaincy experience at all levels - U19, domestic and ODI's. Taylor didn't have the same long experience of captaincy (though he had filled in a couple of times in ODI's after McCullum got axed as VC for no reason). The decision to make him captain was largely made on the basis that he was our best player and he was the better option for John Wright's more authoritarian approach to coaching. Williamson seems a more natural choice - though ideally he'll have at least a couple more years to settle into his role as WP#3B.
kiwiviktor81
International Debutant
Taylor is quiet because he's a peaceful man. Williamson is quiet because he's utterly ruthless. Big difference imo.
You can tell from the billions of throwdowns that Williamson has every day that his time as captain will be characterised by professionalism, commitment and focus.
You can tell from the billions of throwdowns that Williamson has every day that his time as captain will be characterised by professionalism, commitment and focus.
Smudge
Hall of Fame Member
I do love a good cricket-showjumping analogy. Never enough of them.
Flem274*
123/5
the **** is about to fly but we will be back. this is the year we need to show we're a heavyweight and now we know how we measure up. we need to find a new level.
god willing (any one im not picky), shane warne and ian chappell will be bawling their eyes out after a certain test series later this year.
god willing (any one im not picky), shane warne and ian chappell will be bawling their eyes out after a certain test series later this year.
Nah, Southee sucks, Henry isn't as great as we think, and Boult can't possibly keep this up -- he's due a prolonged period of utter mediocrity. Baz is recklessly aggressive and won't come off nearly as well ever again, Taylor's on the downhill slide because he's lazy and Kane's going to revert to talented-but-technically-flawed underperforming prodigy now. Throw in Vettori retiring, Guptill being Guptill and virya's Boy Coriander Sun just not being very good, and things could get ugly. Then Ol' Man River and Luggage are surely out of the ODI reckoning, since they're the wrong side of 35.
The bright spots? Jimmy Neesham's social media presence and, erm, Watling (if he doesn't start sucking too, which he will, because this is the Doom & Gloom thread and he's not a real 'keeper anyway).
Dark times ahead for New Zealand. I predict lots of virya support, funky selection of utter spuds (i.e. Devcich) and losses to Associates in their future. The new England, without the associated upsides.
The bright spots? Jimmy Neesham's social media presence and, erm, Watling (if he doesn't start sucking too, which he will, because this is the Doom & Gloom thread and he's not a real 'keeper anyway).
Dark times ahead for New Zealand. I predict lots of virya support, funky selection of utter spuds (i.e. Devcich) and losses to Associates in their future. The new England, without the associated upsides.
There are even less to being New Zealand after this World Cup.
Wow! I had no idea this thread existed! Talk about a topic I can't get into!!!
My thoughts:
* South Africa were the more deserving side to be in the Final. Their team has more depth and more class to handle the big stage.
* McCullum's dismissal didn't surprise me. He's not much more than a risk-taker - sometimes it works, and other times it doesn't. That it didn't work in the Final surprised me. For what it's worth, he didn't have the intelligence to at least play a few balls and make contact. He didn't hit a ball once! I did feel a bit bad for him that the commentators and every made a big deal over it. You know there are other players who lost the game for New Zealand? They were 3-140 at one stage! Even Mark Nicholas asked him about the first over. The first over was crucial, but there's a lot of New Zealanders in that side who should hang their heads in shame.
* Maxwell's dismissal was hilarious.
* The difference between New Zealand compared to Australia and South Africa is that the latter had depth. New Zealand crumbled because of their lack of depth.
* Everything people were saying about the MCG was true. New Zealand couldn't hit the big sixes and fours they could on the small New Zealand grounds. They couldn't swing the ball, either. The game showed their limitations. Also, they didn't have the home ground advantage. Really I think South Africa could have handled the stage better.
* It was an incredibly boring game. It was like driving your car on cruise control. New Zealand weren't close, and Australia cruised in.
My thoughts:
* South Africa were the more deserving side to be in the Final. Their team has more depth and more class to handle the big stage.
* McCullum's dismissal didn't surprise me. He's not much more than a risk-taker - sometimes it works, and other times it doesn't. That it didn't work in the Final surprised me. For what it's worth, he didn't have the intelligence to at least play a few balls and make contact. He didn't hit a ball once! I did feel a bit bad for him that the commentators and every made a big deal over it. You know there are other players who lost the game for New Zealand? They were 3-140 at one stage! Even Mark Nicholas asked him about the first over. The first over was crucial, but there's a lot of New Zealanders in that side who should hang their heads in shame.
* Maxwell's dismissal was hilarious.
* The difference between New Zealand compared to Australia and South Africa is that the latter had depth. New Zealand crumbled because of their lack of depth.
* Everything people were saying about the MCG was true. New Zealand couldn't hit the big sixes and fours they could on the small New Zealand grounds. They couldn't swing the ball, either. The game showed their limitations. Also, they didn't have the home ground advantage. Really I think South Africa could have handled the stage better.
* It was an incredibly boring game. It was like driving your car on cruise control. New Zealand weren't close, and Australia cruised in.
OverratedSanity
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Is that why they lost on the big stage to NZ?
I don't get the sudden circle jerk for SA tbh. They fought magnificently in the semi vs NZ, but they just weren't good enough to win the Cup. Their batting, especially had serious problems. They lost to India and Pakistan ffs. They did brilliantly to get to the semi but they lost and for me, were only the 4th best team of the tournament.
Flem274*
123/5
francis you hack. give it up, where have you been hiding while NZ have been winning anyway? you're a troll from way back.you're a spuddy weakling looking to put the boot in when nz are down. if you met baz would you run away in fear? yes imo
your life is clearly empty and we win. go back to lonely fapping or whatever you do.
fredfertang
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
there are if you like soap operas
Zinzan
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Yup, I'm positive SA would have been beaten comfortably today with Australia playing that well. And even if it was close, I think they would have been more likely to miss the really big moments.