***Official**** Sri Lanka in New Zealand 2014/2015

[Flem274*]

When Williamson gets out first ball to a specialist batsman bowling 70kph seam up as an opening bowler because a domestic side temporarily goes insane KW will be slammed for it far and wide.

Because that's what Hira tonning up against a test bowler is comparable to.

 

[Flem274*]

I might be going crazy but I'm pretty sure Boulty broke through partnerships with reverse in the UAE and got some bloke out in the test just gone who was on 150 odd not out.

This is like talking to a NSW poster all over again. Are you sure you two don't send each other Christmas cards?

 

[Maximas]

Boult has been beautiful at ripping a couple at the top and coming back to finish the tail, but he's looked toothless (look at the second innings in this test) when there is a set partnership. Again, the comparison to Boult is simply to show how silly you are, you can't go on and on about how great Boult's been without acknowledging that Wagner's been better.

Dimuth dismissal?

 

[Blocky]

In this thread next, people try to justify why Doug Bracewell with a first class average comparable to the test record that Wagner has will be a better option than Wagner from this point on.

 

[Flem274*]

In this thread next, people try to justify why Doug Bracewell with a first class average comparable to the test record that Wagner has will be a better option than Wagner from this point on.

This is some of the most simplistic argument I've seen on the forum.

Aren't you the bloke who thinks the guy who averages 39 with the bat is better than the guy who averages 45? See, that's how simplistic your argument is but I bet you want it both ways don't you champ.

 

[Blocky]

This is some of the most simplistic argument I've seen on the forum.

Aren't you the bloke who thinks the guy who averages 39 with the bat is better than the guy who averages 45? See, that's how simplistic your argument is but I bet you want it both ways don't you champ.

You'll never see me say Taylor is a worser bat than McCullum. You'll see me say McCullum has had a much better season than Taylor has ever had and at the moment, is batting at a level Taylor hasn't batted at - as seen by the fact that he scored 300 more runs this year than Taylor has in any year... Also, another key difference you seem to forget (must be that simplistic thing) is that no one is saying Taylor should be dropped because he's not playing as well as our best performing batsman in the side this year.

Kind of like Wagner, taking wickets at a better rating and ratio than any bowler not named Southee.

 

[Zinzan]

Just because some of us see more potential in the likes of Henry & Milne (looking forward to English conditions & the Duke ball) doesn't suddenly make Wagner garbage or take away what he's achieved in the last 12 months.

I know FC performances aren't everything, but 5 FC county games for Northants & 180+ overs with the ball for this return does concern me looking forward to Tests in England

 

[Flem274*]

You'll never see me say Taylor is a worser bat than McCullum. You'll see me say McCullum has had a much better season than Taylor has ever had and at the moment, is batting at a level Taylor hasn't batted at - as seen by the fact that he scored 300 more runs this year than Taylor has in any year.

Good to hear.

So those UAE and Dimuth wickets...

 

[Blocky]

Just because some of us see more potential in the likes of Henry & Milne (looking forward to English conditions & the Duke ball) doesn't suddenly make Wagner garbage or take away what he's achieved in the last 12 months.

I know FC performances aren't everything, but 5 FC county games & 180+ overs with the ball for this return does concern me looking forward to Tests in England

View attachment 21668

Henry is a new ball bowler. Milne is a no ball bowler. Milne will not perform at test level, he hardly performs at first class level and should he ever solve that, his tendency to break down whenever he bowls more than his four overs at T20 level will count against him. The idea that Henry will be effective as a third seamer for the side really relies on us being willing to take the new ball out of Southee and Boult's hands even while they continue to be dangerous with it. Also, I don't see Henry running into the wind at Wellington for 10 straight overs and asking the captain for "one more over" either.

I think Henry has a tonne of potential, I think he and Wheeler represent the "best of the next" but at the moment, until he proves otherwise, Wagner not only deserves the third seamer spot in our home conditions, he should arguably never have been left out in UAE either.

 

[Blocky]

Good to hear.

So those UAE and Dimuth wickets...

We don't know what Wagner would've done in UAE. We do know what they both did in the Windies, which was similar conditions to what they saw in UAE. We also know what Wagner has done and continued to do this last year, must be nice though thinking we can drop bowlers with averages under 27.5 for the season for bowlers who don't even average that in first class. Other nations would love to have that issue

 

[Flem274*]

I want to see the breakdown of when Henry takes his wickets so we can confirm or deny whether this new ball bowler tag is a figment of Blocky's imagination or not.

His views on Milne should always be taken with a grain of salt since in blocky world he doesn't swing it or bowl bouncers so...

 

[Flem274*]

We don't know what Wagner would've done in UAE. We do know what they both did in the Windies, which was similar conditions to what they saw in UAE. We also know what Wagner has done and continued to do this last year, must be nice though thinking we can drop bowlers with averages under 27.5 for the season for bowlers who don't even average that in first class. Other nations would love to have that issue

We know what Boult did in the UAE and at Hagley too.

 

[Blocky]

We know what Boult did in the UAE and at Hagley too.

Sure, but what you continue to struggle understanding is that it's not about "Boult should be dropped" - it's more so "Boult and Wagner have both performed at pretty much the same level this year, and you're trying to convince people Boult should be seen as a world beater while Wagner should be dropped" - Wagner has won more matches this year for NZ than Boult has. Fact. Boult has won more matches this year than any bowler not in the test side would have. Fact.

But like I say. Fortunately, McCullum and Hesson aren't idiots. They don't drop players because "Well, we're not happy with world class performances this year, we want all time great performances"

 

[Zinzan]

Henry is a new ball bowler. Milne is a no ball bowler. Milne will not perform at test level, he hardly performs at first class level and should he ever solve that, his tendency to break down whenever he bowls more than his four overs at T20 level will count against him. The idea that Henry will be effective as a third seamer for the side really relies on us being willing to take the new ball out of Southee and Boult's hands even while they continue to be dangerous with it. Also, I don't see Henry running into the wind at Wellington for 10 straight overs and asking the captain for "one more over" either.

I think Henry has a tonne of potential, I think he and Wheeler represent the "best of the next" but at the moment, until he proves otherwise, Wagner not only deserves the third seamer spot in our home conditions, he should arguably never have been left out in UAE either.

Conveniently failing to even comment on Wagner's FC return in England; 10 wickets, average 72 & ER over 4 an over. And this is where we'll be playing.

 

[vic_orthdox]

It's pretty much the Siddle argument again really.

And dropping guys on domestic performances is how you end up with a selection carousel, blokes looking behind their backs the whole time and a lot of unhappy cricketers.

 

[Grasshopper]

Tough choice. I'd like to see Bracewell given another chance at some point, but Wagner appeals as a better option to bowl all day into a Basin zephyr.

 

[Blocky]

Conveniently failing to even comment on Wagner's FC return in England; 10 wickets, average 72 & ER over 4 an over. And this is where we'll be playing.

We're discussing the second test in Wellington - not the test series in England in more than 6 months time. Wagner struggling in first class cricket has no bearing on what he's achieving in test cricket, we pointed this out previously by showing how **** Watling has been at first class level. Should we drop him too?

 

[Blocky]

It's pretty much the Siddle argument again really.

And dropping guys on domestic performances is how you end up with a selection carousel, blokes looking behind their backs the whole time and a lot of unhappy cricketers.

Except Siddle was going downhill based on his past performances and while still a good bowler. Had Siddle averaged 27 this season for Australia, he'd not have been dropped.

 

[Zinzan]

We're discussing the second test in Wellington - not the test series in England in more than 6 months time. Wagner struggling in first class cricket has no bearing on what he's achieving in test cricket, we pointed this out previously by showing how **** Watling has been at first class level. Should we drop him too?

I was specifically talking about England. Wagner deserves the Wellington test, but I hope that doesn't necessarily guarantee him the starting spot in England, as I'm not convinced he's our best option there. Horses for courses etc.

 

[Flem274*]

Going back to the original yarn before I got dragged into a Craig, Sodhi and Boult diversion tactic, the question is not whether Wagner has won games for the side or whether he was a good bowler 6-12 months ago but to ask why he is down on zip and whether it would be beneficial for him to miss a test match and get the issue fixed or to play him at the Basin and hope he pushes through it without any damage to the New Zealand bowling performance.