***Official**** Sri Lanka in New Zealand 2014/2015

[vic_orthdox]

Except Siddle was going downhill based on his past performances and while still a good bowler. Had Siddle averaged 27 this season for Australia, he'd not have been dropped.

Yup, obviously the numbers didn't help Sids, and - of course - losing games makes a difference. Only got a reprieve coz of the First Test being in Adelaide.

 

[Blocky]

I was specifically talking about England. Wagner deserves the Wellington test, but I hope that doesn't necessarily guarantee him the starting spot in England, as I'm not convinced he's our best option there. Horses for courses etc.

Even in England, unless Wagner went 0/100 in both innings here, he'll play in England and he'll be our third seamer. You can't drop a performing player on the basis of a hunch, especially considering Wagner has already had success against England where as we don't know what Henry will be like.

I'm a huge fan of horses for courses, I would not be taking a spinner over to England for instance, unless that spinner batted in our Top 6. I'm all for playing someone like Henry or Bracewell in place of Craig as I've stated in this thread, but like I pointed out in my starting post, people are straight up talking a bunch of bull**** if they think Henry or Bracewell have a better than 10% chance of out performing what Wagner has done this year.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Going back to the original yarn before I got dragged into a Craig, Sodhi and Boult diversion tactic, the question is not whether Wagner has won games for the side or whether he was a good bowler 6-12 months ago but to ask why he is down on zip and whether it would be beneficial for him to miss a test match and get the issue fixed or to play him at the Basin and hope he pushes through it without any damage to the New Zealand bowling performance.

It doesn't affect anything in the near future with the ODI WC coming up, so there's no reason to start dropping people on aesthetics.

 

[Blocky]

Going back to the original yarn before I got dragged into a Craig, Sodhi and Boult diversion tactic, the question is not whether Wagner has won games for the side or whether he was a good bowler 6-12 months ago but to ask why he is down on zip and whether it would be beneficial for him to miss a test match and get the issue fixed or to play him at the Basin and hope he pushes through it without any damage to the New Zealand bowling performance.

Obviously didn't see the second innings where he managed to find the 136-144kph range that he's most effective in then. Looked a lot better than he has in ages and was unlucky not to have taken wickets. Put him down to take 4 to 6 wickets in the next test match based on that and the fact that Boult won't be doing any running into the wind. He's far too dainty for that.

 

[Blocky]

Yup, obviously the numbers didn't help Sids, and - of course - losing games makes a difference. Only got a reprieve coz of the First Test being in Adelaide.

I'm a fan of Siddle, all heart, runs in hard, bowls great channels but ever since he went vegan, he lost pace and just doesn't have it anymore. Someone needs to get him off the bananas and onto the cheese burgers.

 

[Bahnz]

Heh, and Blocky springs into action like a coiled donut once more. Good stuff.

 

[Flem274*]

I saw it. It's not his pace that's the issue, it's the lack of fizz/zip/stupid adjective that he's getting (and the early swing in the first innings). You compare the Wagner of the series against India to the Wagner of the other day. Couple that with his very poor returns in two domestic competitions and it's a concern that thankfully he will have several months to fix between the end of the Basin and England.

You'd be a brave man not to back Henry or Bracewell with a duke to be more effective than a bowler like Wagner when we go to England btw. England is definitely the second place after home I'd want to debut or recall a swing bowler.

 

[Blocky]

You do realise you're not actually trolling people when you post a bad opinion and have it shot down into the bag of manure it actually is, right?

 

[Flem274*]

I'm a fan of Siddle, all heart, runs in hard, bowls great channels but ever since he went vegan, he lost pace and just doesn't have it anymore. Someone needs to get him off the bananas and onto the cheese burgers.

Go post this in the other tour thread for my entertainment pls. Make sure you let them know you're serious.

 

[Zinzan]

Even in England, unless Wagner went 0/100 in both innings here, he'll play in England and he'll be our third seamer. You can't drop a performing player on the basis of a hunch, especially considering Wagner has already had success against England where as we don't know what Henry will be like.

I'm a huge fan of horses for courses, I would not be taking a spinner over to England for instance, unless that spinner batted in our Top 6. I'm all for playing someone like Henry or Bracewell in place of Craig as I've stated in this thread, but like I pointed out in my starting post, people are straight up talking a bunch of bull**** if they think Henry or Bracewell have a better than 10% chance of out performing what Wagner has done this year.

Fortunately we have a couple of 3-day tour games leading into the first test, so hopefully we'll get the chance to see a few of the contenders head to head. Don't think anyone would complain about that would they?



Edit: They're actually 4-day games...even better.

 

[Blocky]

I saw it. It's not his pace that's the issue, it's the lack of fizz/zip/stupid adjective that he's getting (and the early swing in the first innings). You compare the Wagner of the series against India to the Wagner of the other day. Couple that with his very poor returns in two domestic competitions and it's a concern that thankfully he will have several months to fix between the end of the Basin and England.

You'd be a brave man not to back Henry or Bracewell with a duke to be more effective than a bowler like Wagner when we go to England btw. England is definitely the second place after home I'd want to debut or recall a swing bowler.

I pointed out during the UAE series that Wagner's action had fallen apart and that he was falling over and not generating pace off the pitch - he looked somewhat better in the first innings but I felt he bowled well in the second innings and was looking like the bowler he was against India and West Indies without too much luck. Judging him on what he's managed to do at domestic level is pointless, because he continues (even in this match) to take wickets at test level.

And to be honest, talking like Wagner doesn't get conventional swing is a proven fallacy too. He gets conventional in-swing (outswing to the right hand batsman) - he doesn't get as much of it as Boult or Southee does, but it is there. He's also the only NZ bowler I've seen outside of Iain O'Brien who gets better during long spells which is another important thing considering both Boult and Southee are best kept to six or seven overs at maximum.

Reality is, if you want Henry or Bracewell in England, it's at the expense of Craig or Neesham/Anderson. Wagner will play in the first test there and likely do enough to play the series.

 

[Bahnz]

I'm a fan of Siddle, all heart, runs in hard, bowls great channels but ever since he went vegan, he lost pace and just doesn't have it anymore. Someone needs to get him off the bananas and onto the cheese burgers.

You should audition for the Channel 9 commentary team. Reckon you'd fit into the culture there really well too.

 

[Blocky]

You should audition for the Channel 9 commentary team. Reckon you'd fit into the culture there really well too.

What, a culture of proven test match performers? I can see why you put me on that pedestal in comparison to you. In any case, if you want to start personal ****, I'm happy to start reporting you. Play the ball, not the man.

 

[Flem274*]

I'm sure you must be very experienced.

 

[Bahnz]

Anyway, I'm sorry but you're fooling yourself if you think Wagner was bowling well in the second innings. He was tame, and never looked like getting a wicket. Hell, Craig looked more likely to break through than Wagner did throughout most of the 3rd day. I agree that Hesson won't drop him, and to a certain extent he's probably right to do so. But in his current form, and in current early season conditions, Wagner should not be in the side.

 

[Bahnz]

What, a culture of proven test match performers? I can see why you put me on that pedestal in comparison to you. In any case, if you want to start personal ****, I'm happy to start reporting you. Play the ball, not the man.

You know, for someone who's always having a go at most of the posters on this forum for being too soft and easily offended, you were awfully quick to jump to this response.

 

[Athlai]

What, a culture of proven test match performers? I can see why you put me on that pedestal in comparison to you. In any case, if you want to start personal ****, I'm happy to start reporting you. Play the ball, not the man.

Whoooosh.

 

[Dan]

What, a culture of proven test match performers? I can see why you put me on that pedestal in comparison to you. In any case, if you want to start personal ****, I'm happy to start reporting you. Play the ball, not the man.

But how many Sheffield Shield games have you played? That's all that matters to Brad McNamara.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

To be fair, Wagner fills the horses-for-courses 3rd seamer role for the Basin much better than any of the realistic alternatives. He offers a different package to most of the other seam bowlers who are capable of playing international cricket. He should be selected for the Basin.

The tour in England is different, especially early season - which our Tests are. Historically, England have deployed swing bowlers in early season matches or on pitches where conditions would be suitable. Most recently Graham Onions, but previously guys like Martin Bicknell or Mike Smith. It's not unheard of

 

[Howsie]

Boult bowled absolute **** in the second innings once you remove his dismissal of Sanga

Jesus